The Jocketty Files

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

Can't argue that, but has he been in a position to? His tradeable assets have been weighed down by their contracts in the midst of a financial crisis. Look at what Javy Vazquez just fetched...little in the way of long term impact.

Not many teams are dealing legit cheap talent for middle tier vets with contracts of size.

I agree.... he wasn't exactly in a position to be adding established types of players, or high end prospects for that matter. But, Walt hasn't been particularly proactive in taking some risks on some of the lower end roster players. The Reds being fairly non-competitive, are in a position that they could be filling up parts of the bench, or perhaps even offering partial playing time opportunities to some young players that have failed in other organizations.

One such guy he did pick up was Balentin, and I think that is the right type of move that he should be exploring more often. Those types of guys can be had, and you know, it's not that surprising when they develop into meaningful players. The best thing Kriv ever did was turning nothing into something (I'm not meaning to bait you). For all the faults he had, that is one area that he had right, and it came at no cost to the other areas of the team.

Walt has done a very good job for the most part in excercising patience, sticking to the rebuilding effort, and not strap himself with future contracts. And rightfully so, that was Kriv's biggest downfall and the reason that he shouldn't be GM.

So honestly, I don't think it would take much for a combined approach (as in the best of each world, not signing bad players to LTD's and adding no talent lol). In the end, baseball is set-up based on contracts and roster positions that it is very much possible to turn another team's failed prospect into a successful project. So I dont think there's much of an excuse for the void of building blocks, or even mildly interesting talent that has been added during his tenure.

[cincrazy]

I don't blame Walt for this. We all knew the kind of GM Walt was before he showed up. He specializes in big trades, the Reds aren't going to make any of those big trades. If you were expecting Walt to make a bunch of under the radar deals while shoring up the farm system, you were way off base.

I think Bob brought him aboard with the intention of spending more money, but an economic recession and reality kept him from doing so, and this is what we have.

[Mario-Rijo]

Somehow I managed to miss a few here as retro sheet didn't have all of them. I'll keep looking just in case I still might have missed something.


December 9th 2008:
Traded Ryan Freel, Justin Turner & Brandon Waring for Ramon Hernandez and cash

July 29th 2009:
Traded Robert Manuel for Wladimir Balentein

And of course Ramon's re-signing.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

I agree.... he wasn't exactly in a position to be adding established types of players, or high end prospects for that matter. But, Walt hasn't been particularly proactive in taking some risks on some of the lower end roster players. The Reds being fairly non-competitive, are in a position that they could be filling up parts of the bench, or perhaps even offering partial playing time opportunities to some young players that have failed in other organizations.

One such guy he did pick up was Balentin, and I think that is the right type of move that he should be exploring more often. Those types of guys can be had, and you know, it's not that surprising when they develop into meaningful players. The best thing Kriv ever did was turning nothing into something (I'm not meaning to bait you). For all the faults he had, that is one area that he had right, and it came at no cost to the other areas of the team.

I agree. But I think dumpster diving has become even more expensive over the past few years. Every team wants cheep, young, good talent and the price keeps going up. IMO Walt over his career has been very good at judging minor league talent. Figuring out who is legit and who is over rated. Taking the over rated minor leaguers and trading them for bonified major league talent.

I do think a team like the Reds should be active dumpster divers. But at the same time a player like Balentin isn't free. The Reds had to give up something in order to get him. It may have been a fringe major league bull pen arm, but he wasn't free.

Walt has done a very good job for the most part in excercising patience, sticking to the rebuilding effort, and not strap himself with future contracts. And rightfully so, that was Kriv's biggest downfall and the reason that he shouldn't be GM.

That may have been Walt's most important job. Building from inside, resist the urge to trade prospects even as the fans grow more restless. The only prospect of any value that Walt moved was Stewart. He has done a good job keeping keeping a core group of young players together.

To be honest I think Krivsky is a very good person to have in your organization. He has a good eye for young talent and more often than not was able to acquire that talent on the cheap. If he were director of minor league operations I would be ecstatic. However as an overall GM I think he was lacking. I think he had trouble balancing everything on an organizational level. I think Jocketty does a very good job of seeing the big picture. I think Cast sees it that way which I think is why Jocketty is here and being provided quite a big more leeway than the prior GM's.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

Walt Jocketty has been a huge failure up to this point. Wayne Krivsky, while not a genius, did a much better job than Jocketty has done up to this point.

Do you feel this way about Jocketty just b/c he traded Z. Stewart?

[OnBaseMachine]

Originally Posted by Highlifeman21

Do you feel this way about Jocketty just b/c he traded Z. Stewart?

Umm, no.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by cincrazy

I don't blame Walt for this. We all knew the kind of GM Walt was before he showed up. He specializes in big trades, the Reds aren't going to make any of those big trades. If you were expecting Walt to make a bunch of under the radar deals while shoring up the farm system, you were way off base.

I think Bob brought him aboard with the intention of spending more money, but an economic recession and reality kept him from doing so, and this is what we have.

My guess is that Walt told Bob that in your market the key is building with youth which is a long process requiring patience. The objective is to have a decent ballclub to keep the fans reasonably happy until the kids are ready.

The first batch of kids was the Votto/Cueto/Bruce/Bailey/Volquez group. But it's not enough. The next batch of kids is the Alonso, Francisco, Frazier, Wood, Heisey, Cozart group.

So we are about ready to see what Walt has and how he uses these pieces. I won't trash him for being patient and recognizing that the team's key assets are very young players.

But we are now at the point where he has to make it work. He moved Stewart and Roenicke for a veteran. He now has to decide how to use these other pieces, or how to trade them for useful players who fit the team's needs.

Of course, the years march on and now Harang and Arroyo have one year left on their deals. This presents another challenge. Do you get value for these guys now or do you let them play out the string, trade them at the deadline, let them go for draft choices, or try to re-sign one or both?

So, Walt's time is coming. We'll know soon. But I think it's premature to judge now.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

Umm, no.

Then why do you feel Jocketty is a failure?

[camisadelgolf]

Great job, Mario. Here are some possible additions/corrections I have. I don't have the dates, though, unfortunately.

I believe both Tom Shearn and Justin Lehr's contracts were sold to Korea--I don't think they were released.
The Reds acquired Tom Collaro and Aaron Herr for future considerations.
Drew M. Anderson was traded to the Rays for future consideration.
The Reds received cash considerations for Cody Strait and Carlos Guevara (rule five draft pick).
Also, at some point in 2009, the Reds bought Mark Pawelek's contract.

Signed to minor league contracts (I bolded the players with MLB experience):
Darrick Hale
Greg Dombrowski
Jeff Kennard
Ismael Guillon
Federico Baez
Brian Peterson
Korey Feiner
Ryan Doran
David Shafer
Mark James
Luis Pardo
Adam Greenberg
Jesus Carnevale
Stephen Chapman
Kyle Aselton
Tom Cochran
Chase Ware
John Dao
Tim Crabbe
Chris Kelly
Danny Hernandez
Zach Ward
Ryan Smith
Greg Atencio
Cameron Satterwhite
Lew Ford
Albert Laboy
Chris Burke
Po-Cheng Chi
Brandon Yarbrough
Kevin West
Chad Reineke
Arshwin Asjes
Sean Danielson

Francisco Lizarraga was selected in the minor league portion of the rule five draft and loaned to Mexico. Doug Salinas was selected in this year's portion of the minor league rule five draft. Terrell Young was selected in last year's rule five draft and returned to the Reds. Henry Arias was lost in the minor league portion, and Ben Jukich was taken by the Cardinals this year.

Marcus McBeth was taken by the Red Sox on waivers.

Released/Granted Free Agency (I bolded the players with MLB experience):
Kevin Gunter
Luis Soto
Chandler Power
Tom Fiebig
James Morris
Angel Cabrera
Tom Collaro
Brett Bartles
Hugo Calderon
Tyler Rhoden
Frank Meade
Eli Rimes
Anthony Gressick
Yuber Rodriguez
Rafael Ceballos
Juan Rafael
Efrain Rodriguez
Jeremy Vinyard
Dan Zeffiro
Jamie Arneson
Todd Waller
Mike McKennon
Darrick Hale
Jacque Jones
Derrick Conatser
Enrique Garcia
Justin James
Luis Pardo
Ron Flores
David Torcise
Eddy Rodriguez
Adam Greenberg
Drew T. Anderson
Mike DeJesus
David Shafer
Dan Perales
Brandon Menchaca
Justin Mallett
Kyle Aselton
Jesus Carnevale
Juan Aquino
Matt Stiffler
Adam Pettyjohn
Brian Peterson
Humberto Sosa
Tyler Stovall
Leo Astorga
Chris Kelly
Ramon Rodriguez
Bryan Gardner
Sergio Guerrero
Shea Snowden
Kel Jones
Jason Louwsma
Justin Tordi
Kevin Barker (again)
Darnell McDonald
Shaun Cumberland
Luis Bolivar
Ben Davis
Camilo Vazquez
Jeff Kennard
Chris Kroski
Lew Ford
Korey Feiner
Wes Bankston
Greg Atencio

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

Great job, Mario. Here are some possible additions/corrections I have. I don't have the dates, though, unfortunately.

Yeah I didn't have much on the minor league side of things, thanks for the additions. BTW I wondered what happened to that Lizarraga kid is he still Reds property and might we see him again? I thought he was a High-A/AA advanced SS.

[Will M]

Originally Posted by Kc61

My guess is that Walt told Bob that in your market the key is building with youth which is a long process requiring patience. The objective is to have a decent ballclub to keep the fans reasonably happy until the kids are ready.

The first batch of kids was the Votto/Cueto/Bruce/Bailey/Volquez group. But it's not enough. The next batch of kids is the Alonso, Francisco, Frazier, Wood, Heisey, Cozart group.

So we are about ready to see what Walt has and how he uses these pieces. I won't trash him for being patient and recognizing that the team's key assets are very young players.

But we are now at the point where he has to make it work. He moved Stewart and Roenicke for a veteran. He now has to decide how to use these other pieces, or how to trade them for useful players who fit the team's needs.

Of course, the years march on and now Harang and Arroyo have one year left on their deals. This presents another challenge. Do you get value for these guys now or do you let them play out the string, trade them at the deadline, let them go for draft choices, or try to re-sign one or both?

So, Walt's time is coming. We'll know soon. But I think it's premature to judge now.

agree with what you say.

one note: both Aaron & Bronson have club options for 2011

[OnBaseMachine]

Originally Posted by Highlifeman21

Then why do you feel Jocketty is a failure?

Maybe because he's been horrible in his tenure with the Reds? Scott Rolen is the best player Jocketty has acquired, and it took a lot to acquire him. Krivsky acquired talents like Brandon Phillips, Bronson Arroyo, and Josh Hamilton for next to nothing. Someone give me a call when Jocketty does something similar. I'd take Dan O'Brien over Jocketty at this point.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

Maybe because he's been horrible in his tenure with the Reds? Scott Rolen is the best player Jocketty has acquired, and it took a lot to acquire him. Krivsky acquired talents like Brandon Phillips, Bronson Arroyo, and Josh Hamilton for next to nothing. Someone give me a call when Jocketty does something similar. I'd take Dan O'Brien over Jocketty at this point.

You just don't get it.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

Maybe because he's been horrible in his tenure with the Reds? Scott Rolen is the best player Jocketty has acquired, and it took a lot to acquire him. Krivsky acquired talents like Brandon Phillips, Bronson Arroyo, and Josh Hamilton for next to nothing. Someone give me a call when Jocketty does something similar. I'd take Dan O'Brien over Jocketty at this point.

So b/c Krivsky acquired guys like Phillips, Arroyo and Hamilton for pennies on the dollar, that has what to do with Jocketty?

Jocketty's stuck with Krivsky's team, who was stuck with O'Brien's team. At least Jocketty's shown to have a plan to improve the defense, to which I give him credit. He didn't retain Adam Dunn, which I didn't like, but he did what he felt he had to do in order to begin to improve the Reds. Now if Jocketty could go out and get some pitching to go with the improved defense, we might have something, since right now our offense sucks something awful.

The only things I'd change in Jocketty's tenure is to have kept Adam Dunn to have some offense to go with Votto, Phillips and now Rolen, and I wouldn't have traded Freel for Hernandez, as I don't like the Hernandez addition, although I liked him moving Freel. I also wouldn't have signed Willy Taveras nor Mike Lincoln. The rest I'm strangely ok with.

I'm just hoping Jocketty can get creative and add some pitching to this team.

I like Jocketty more than Krivsky, and I easily like them both more than O'Brien.

[OnBaseMachine]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

You just don't get it.

What I don't get is all the excuses for Jocketty while Krivsky was constantly hammered for everything he did. Even Krivsky's good moves were chalked up as luck while people make excuse after excuse for Jocketty. Jocketty has been horrible - far worse than Krivsky. Far worse.