UC Basketball

[Matt700wlw]

Didn't Mick just get a new contract over the offseason?

I said at the time, that was a premature move. He has to prove he can handle the Big East before UC starts giving him lengthy contract extensions...he's in his 4th year, and hasn't shown it.

[Boston Red]

Are you telling me St. John's wouldn't win the A-10?

[BearcatShane]

Originally Posted by Reds4Life

My patience with Mick is over. If they don't make the NCAA's this year, which it sure looks like they have no prayer of doing, then it's time to find somebody else. Next year is shaping up to be even worse, the top 2 scorers (Lance and Vaughn) will be gone next year there and there is nothing waiting in the wings to replace them. The lack of development with Gates is insane.

The problem is, UC has no money to buy out his contract, and no big name would have any interest in coming here. Even if one did, no cash to make it happen.

They don't need a big name coach. They need a good coach. There are plenty out there in the smaller conferences.

[paintmered]

Originally Posted by BearcatShane

They don't need a big name coach. They need a good coach. There are plenty out there in the smaller conferences.

Here's the competition:

Rick Pitino
Jim Calhoun
John Thompson III
Jim Boeheim
Jay Wright
Bob Huggins
Jamie Dixon

Find me a mid-major coach that can out recruit, out develop and out coach that group. Or at least two of the three.

[reds1869]

Originally Posted by paintmered

Here's the competition:

Rick Pitino
Jim Calhoun
John Thompson III
Jim Boeheim
Jay Wright
Bob Huggins
Jamie Dixon

Find me a mid-major coach that can out recruit, out develop and out coach that group. Or at least two of the three.

While Gonzaga long ago dropped the "mid-major" designation, they are certainly in a conference not even good enough to obtain that title. So I would have to suggest Mark Few could more than hold his own in the Big East coaching community. What he has done there is pretty spectacular.

[SeeinRed]

I'm one of the biggest Mick supporters on here, but he should be doing a lot better with the talent he has on this team. I've had a feeling that this was the year he had to make the NCAA's or it would be his last and that feeling is getting stronger. Mick's extension in the offseason was little more than security for recruits IMO. Very rarely do you want to let a coach get into his last season on a contract even if you aren't sure he'll be around. The one thing that worries me is how many more years UC will have to wait to get a better team on the floor.

A big name coach would definately be one way to shorten that process. If UC really is serious about getting back to a nationally relevant basketball program they will need to do something drastic IMO. The luster is quickly wearing off.

[dabvu2498]

Originally Posted by paintmered

Here's the competition: Rick Pitino Jim Calhoun John Thompson III Jim Boeheim Jay Wright Bob Huggins Jamie Dixon Find me a mid-major coach that can out recruit, out develop and out coach that group. Or at least two of the three.

Wright was the coach at Hofstra when Nova hired him. Thompson was at Princeton. Calhoun - Northeastern. Huggs - Akron. Pitino - BU. Dixon had never been a head coach. It is not about hiring a name guy. It is about hiring the right guy.

[jimbo]

Originally Posted by dabvu2498

Wright was the coach at Hofstra when Nova hired him. Thompson was at Princeton. Calhoun - Northeastern. Huggs - Akron. Pitino - BU. Dixon had never been a head coach. It is not about hiring a name guy. It is about hiring the right guy.

I'll take it even further and go local with both Sean Miller and Brian Gregory being assistants before being hired at Xavier and UD.

There are plenty of excellent assistants and coaches at small colleges who are waiting for the right opportunity and will someday be big-time coaches. The challenge is finding the right one. Hiring a "name" coach is overrated in my opinion. The only advantage to that as I can see would be initial recruiting.

[Reds4Life]

Originally Posted by jimbo

I'll take it even further and go local with both Sean Miller and Brian Gregory being assistants before being hired at Xavier and UD.

There are plenty of excellent assistants and coaches at small colleges who are waiting for the right opportunity and will someday be big-time coaches. The challenge is finding the right one. Hiring a "name" coach is overrated in my opinion. The only advantage to that as I can see would be initial recruiting.

The problem with hiring one of unknowns, they are going against coaches in the Big East with HOF resumes, some of them are already in the HOF. If you are going to compete in the Big East every year, you need to recruit top talent (top 50 player at every position) or you have no shot. The league is about as unforgiving as there is, and there is no room for error or rebuilding if you want to have a prayer of winning.

Pitno, Calhoun & Boeheim have all won national titles. Pitino has been to 5 final fours. Huggs and Wright, have been to a final four. The list goes on. That isn't an easy situation to come into and recruit against if you aren't already a proven winner.

I'm a UC grad and fan, but the harsh reality is the school will probably focus on football from now on. The payouts are higher, and it's more realistic to compete. Unless some miracle happens, or they stumble onto the next John Wooden by mistake, I don't see them being able to compete in basketball in this league.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Reds4Life

The problem with hiring one of unknowns, they are going against coaches in the Big East with HOF resumes, some of them are already in the HOF. If you are going to compete in the Big East every year, you need to recruit top talent (top 50 player at every position) or you have no shot. The league is about as unforgiving as there is, and there is no room for error or rebuilding if you want to have a prayer of winning.

Pitno, Calhoun & Boeheim have all won national titles. Pitino has been to 5 final fours. Huggs and Wright, have been to a final four. The list goes on. That isn't an easy situation to come into and recruit against if you aren't already a proven winner.

I'm a UC grad and fan, but the harsh reality is the school will probably focus on football from now on. The payouts are higher, and it's more realistic to compete. Unless some miracle happens, or they stumble onto the next John Wooden by mistake, I don't see them being able to compete in basketball in this league.

I don't think it takes much time to become a good college basketball coach. Your not going to go in your first season and become a world beater, but you can have a respectable season.

I consider Jamie Dixon probably the best all around coach in the Big East. He really arose out of no where and continued the success that Pitt had under Howland. Cronin has shown the inability to get his team to play on a consistent basis all season long. In the end it may be his downfall, but you can't lose games like last night if you expect to be a reputable program.

I don't think UC's program is in all that bad of shape. They have shown the ability to get the recruits in, which is key. They just need to get a better motivator and game coach on the bench.

[guttle11]

Originally Posted by Boston Red

Are you telling me St. John's wouldn't win the A-10?

Ha ha. My favorite quote of all time. It will never get old.

[Reds4Life]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

I don't think it takes much time to become a good college basketball coach. Your not going to go in your first season and become a world beater, but you can have a respectable season.

I consider Jamie Dixon probably the best all around coach in the Big East. He really arose out of no where and continued the success that Pitt had under Howland. Cronin has shown the inability to get his team to play on a consistent basis all season long. In the end it may be his downfall, but you can't lose games like last night if you expect to be a reputable program.

I don't think UC's program is in all that bad of shape. They have shown the ability to get the recruits in, which is key. They just need to get a better motivator and game coach on the bench.

I theory I agree, but it's hard to more with less when all the teams above you are recruiting 5 star top 25 and top 50 players at every position. It puts you in the position of having to get lucky with some recruits, and that doesn't work out very often.

They aren't in CUSA anymore, you can't win the Big East with marginal talent, or recruits that might work out.

I agree that Mick isn't very good as a bench coach. Some of the stuff he does simply boggles the mind. But it's hard to find a guy who is a good X's and O's guy, and a good recruiter. They are usually one or the other. The other reality is, UC has no money to buyout Cronin. They also don't have much money to hire a new coach either. I doubt they could get somebody who has a shot at competing in this league for the money will be able to pay.

[BearcatShane]

Originally Posted by paintmered

Here's the competition:

Rick Pitino
Jim Calhoun
John Thompson III
Jim Boeheim
Jay Wright
Bob Huggins
Jamie Dixon

Find me a mid-major coach that can out recruit, out develop and out coach that group. Or at least two of the three.

I can't name them. But they are out there. Jay Wright came from Hofstra, Jim Calhoun came from Northeastern, Bob Huggins came from Akron.

[Sea Ray]

No one's really asking Mick to beat the Big Boys of the Big East. The reason he's going down is because he's losing to schools like DePaul (last year) and Seton Hall/St Johns and yes, even Xavier, this year. As tough as the Big East is he can't afford those kind of losses. He needs to be able to beat those kinds of teams

[WVRedsFan]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

No one's really asking Mick to beat the Big Boys of the Big East. The reason he's going down is because he's losing to schools like DePaul (last year) and Seton Hall/St Johns and yes, even Xavier, this year. As tough as the Big East is he can't afford those kind of losses. He needs to be able to beat those kinds of teams

Sorry to chime in here, but in the Big East, you have to be able to face a top 20 team almost every game and many are just not up to it. Gale Catlett was a tremendous coach at West Virginia when it was in the A-10, but when WVU went to the BE, he pretty much imploded. John Beilein came along and did well, but couldn't take the pressure and left. Huggins is doing well, but he always has.

Like you say, you have to win your non-conference games, win all your home games in the conference and split your away games to do well. And you have to beat the scrubs of the league. If you don't do that, you are not successful in the Big East.