Bengals 2010 pt. I

[Oxilon]

Originally Posted by Playadlc

Found this on a Bengals board...

1996-2002 --- [i.e. Pre-Marvin]
8-8
7-9
3-13
4-12
4-12
4-12
2-14

TOTAL WINS = 32
Playoff appearances = 0
Division titles = 0



2003-2009 --- [i.e. Post-Marvin]
8-8
8-8
11-5
8-8
7-9
4-11-1
10-6

TOTAL WINS = 56
Playoff Appearances = 2
Division titles = 2

So the Bengals went from horrendous to mediocre with Marvin Lewis it seems. I still don't want an extension to Marvin until he can actually win a playoff game. 7 seasons with the Bengals and ZERO playoff wins kind of speaks for itself.

[camisadelgolf]

Originally Posted by Oxilon

So the Bengals went from horrendous to mediocre with Marvin Lewis it seems. I still don't want an extension to Marvin until he can actually win a playoff game. 7 seasons with the Bengals and ZERO playoff wins kind of speaks for itself.

They went from horrendous to somewhat respectable. To count those first couple seasons against him is unfair when you consider how much making up he had to do for the previous regimes. You have to crawl before you run, but at least the Bengals are finally jogging. What Marvin has done for the organization has been incredible. Granted, he has input for the roster, but everything is ultimately Mike Brown's decision. When the Bengals lose, it is rarely, if ever, a result of bad coaching. The problem has been a lack of talent.

[Oxilon]

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

They went from horrendous to somewhat respectable. To count those first couple seasons against him is unfair when you consider how much making up he had to do for the previous regimes. You have to crawl before you run, but at least the Bengals are finally jogging. What Marvin has done for the organization has been incredible. Granted, he has input for the roster, but everything is ultimately Mike Brown's decision. When the Bengals lose, it is rarely, if ever, a result of bad coaching. The problem has been a lack of talent.

No offense, but I hate this excuse. The Bengals can't change the status quo of mediocrity because they'll more than likely revert back to the 90's Bengals if they replace Marvin. Honestly, .500 records or 4-12 seasons, either way, you're not going to win the Superbowl, and that's all I care about.

And if Billy Bidwell can hire a coach and get his team to the Superbowl, than surely even Mike Brown could do the same. Marvin Lewis has been with the Bengals 7 years; the talent that's here is on him now.

[Redhook]

This Marvin thing is a touchy subject. First, I'll never forget how he took this franchise from the depths of hell to the playoffs. He did a great job his first 3 years.

After '05 I would grade him at a C-. Some good years, some bad. Since '05, I believe his negatives have slightly outweighed his positives. I thought he failed with the Chad situation, his clock management blows, not challenging Brat in his play-calling, failing to adjust quickly enough during games, etc. I believe those are big issues and could've all been improved upon.

At this point in time the question is this, "Is Marvin the guy that can get the Bengals to the next level, i.e. Super Bowl Champs?" IMO, I don't think he is. I'm not saying I want him fired right now or that he's a bad coach, I just think he lacks something to get this team to the elite level. Obviously, having to deal with Mike Brown's shenanigans certainly doesn't help his cause, but I put some of the blame on Marvin.

[macro]

The sad thing is that this:

Originally Posted by Playadlc

2003-2009 --- [i.e. Post-Marvin]
8-8
8-8
11-5
8-8
7-9
4-11-1
10-6

TOTAL WINS = 56
Playoff Appearances = 2
Division titles = 2

would have fan in an uproar and the coach fired in many (most?) NFL cities, while in Cincinnati it's considered a bright, new day.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by Redhook

This Marvin thing is a touchy subject. First, I'll never forget how he took this franchise from the depths of hell to the playoffs. He did a great job his first 3 years.

After '05 I would grade him at a C-. Some good years, some bad. Since '05, I believe his negatives have slightly outweighed his positives. I thought he failed with the Chad situation, his clock management blows, not challenging Brat in his play-calling, failing to adjust quickly enough during games, etc. I believe those are big issues and could've all been improved upon.

At this point in time the question is this, "Is Marvin the guy that can get the Bengals to the next level, i.e. Super Bowl Champs?" IMO, I don't think he is. I'm not saying I want him fired right now or that he's a bad coach, I just think he lacks something to get this team to the elite level. Obviously, having to deal with Mike Brown's shenanigans certainly doesn't help his cause, but I put some of the blame on Marvin.

Originally Posted by macro

The sad thing is that this:



would have fan in an uproar and the coach fired in many (most?) NFL cities, while in Cincinnati it's considered a bright, new day.

Agreed.

[Newport Red]

Originally Posted by macro

The sad thing is that this:



would have fan in an uproar and the coach fired in many (most?) NFL cities, while in Cincinnati it's considered a bright, new day.

He's one of the few coaches who got to rebuild a team twice. A rarity in the NFL.

[joshnky]

Originally Posted by Redhook

After '05 I would grade him at a C-. Some good years, some bad. Since '05, I believe his negatives have slightly outweighed his positives. I thought he failed with the Chad situation, his clock management blows, not challenging Brat in his play-calling, failing to adjust quickly enough during games, etc. I believe those are big issues and could've all been improved upon.

I agree on the Chad issue; however, I believe the health of Palmer has played a major factor in his post 2005 resume. Look at Brady and the Patriots for a similar comparison. While they haven't fallen as far, they've fallen back to the pack and many are suggesting the ending of an era. Unfortunately, Palmer's relative health and ability to avoid injury is a situation that is still in limbo and may end up being the death of Lewis' tenure and result in missing the opportunity that the defense and running game is providing.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by macro

The sad thing is that this:



would have fan in an uproar and the coach fired in many (most?) NFL cities, while in Cincinnati it's considered a bright, new day.

Hyperbole, plain and simple. More like there are a few NFL cities that might not be up to snuff, but many or most? A great exagerration.

[Tony Cloninger]

Tolerating mediocre HC goes back to Sam Wyche. Wyche had the most talent of all the coaches since 1980...and while that SB year of 1988 was great....He was also terrible at In game adjustments.....He would out cute himself and basically had no excuse for only having 2 playoff appearances with that great talent.

So I can tolerate Marvin beacuse I think he wins in spite of the Brown family and it's great in breed FO and scouting staff.

How may coaches will or would come here of any substance to begin with...if he were fired?

[macro]

Originally Posted by traderumor

Hyperbole, plain and simple. More like there are a few NFL cities that might not be up to snuff, but many or most? A great exagerration.

I don't understand your reply, tr. I didn't say that many or most NFL cities are not up to snuff, whatever that means. I said that many (or most?) NFL cities would not be celebrating a record such as Marvin's, but rather would be frustrated at the lack of success and calling for his firing. Is that the point you're disputing? If so, I'm puzzled as to why you would attempt to. Coaches with far better records and lists of accomplishments have been run out (or nudged out) of NFL cities many times. Heck, a story came out just this week that hinted that the Steelers' three-game, season ending winning streak may have saved Mike Tomlin's job, and this less than twelve months after he won the Super Bowl.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by macro

I don't understand your reply, tr. I didn't say that many or most NFL cities are not up to snuff, whatever that means. I said that many (or most?) NFL cities would not be celebrating a record such as Marvin's, but rather would be frustrated at the lack of success and calling for his firing. Is that the point you're disputing? If so, I'm puzzled as to why you would attempt to. Coaches with far better records and lists of accomplishments have been run out (or nudged out) of NFL cities many times. Heck, a story came out just this week that hinted that the Steelers' three-game, season ending winning streak may have saved Mike Tomlin's job, and this less than twelve months after he won the Super Bowl.

You understood it. Pittsburgh was one exception I was thinking about, but to say that his record to date, all things considered, would result in a firing in most NFL cities is an exaggeration. Whether you like it or not, the Bengals situation is what it is, and he has been successful. To say that is a reflection of low standards really isn't fair. If the Bengals fired him by the standard of these unnamed NFL cities, they would be wrong for doing so. Your assumption is that the other NFL cities you are alluding to would be justified in doing so, which begs the question.

[WVRed]

Originally Posted by Redhook

This Marvin thing is a touchy subject. First, I'll never forget how he took this franchise from the depths of hell to the playoffs. He did a great job his first 3 years.

After '05 I would grade him at a C-. Some good years, some bad. Since '05, I believe his negatives have slightly outweighed his positives. I thought he failed with the Chad situation, his clock management blows, not challenging Brat in his play-calling, failing to adjust quickly enough during games, etc. I believe those are big issues and could've all been improved upon.

At this point in time the question is this, "Is Marvin the guy that can get the Bengals to the next level, i.e. Super Bowl Champs?" IMO, I don't think he is. I'm not saying I want him fired right now or that he's a bad coach, I just think he lacks something to get this team to the elite level. Obviously, having to deal with Mike Brown's shenanigans certainly doesn't help his cause, but I put some of the blame on Marvin.

I think a good comparison would be Tony Dungy in Tampa Bay. Good coach who laid the groundwork for a pretty impressive team, but just didnt have what it took to win the big game.

[Newport Red]

Originally Posted by macro

I don't understand your reply, tr. I didn't say that many or most NFL cities are not up to snuff, whatever that means. I said that many (or most?) NFL cities would not be celebrating a record such as Marvin's, but rather would be frustrated at the lack of success and calling for his firing. Is that the point you're disputing? If so, I'm puzzled as to why you would attempt to. Coaches with far better records and lists of accomplishments have been run out (or nudged out) of NFL cities many times. Heck, a story came out just this week that hinted that the Steelers' three-game, season ending winning streak may have saved Mike Tomlin's job, and this less than twelve months after he won the Super Bowl.

I'd be shocked if the Rooney's fired Tomlin. Cowher was only 8-8 the year after his Super Bowl win.

Lewis hasn't been fired because Mike isn't going to pay him to not work. If there was a time to fire Lewis, it was last year, and Mike isn't paying 2 years for nothing. This season has made it mostly a mute point.

I'm sure Mike will offer Lewis an extension. Let's see how long it is and if Marvin accepts.

[Newport Red]

Originally Posted by WVRed

I think a good comparison would be Tony Dungy in Tampa Bay. Good coach who laid the groundwork for a pretty impressive team, but just didnt have what it took to win the big game.

I don't think the Bengals as a football organization has what it takes to even get to the Super Bowl. The Steelers, Patriots, Chargers and Colts are just better organization top to bottom. Pittsburgh can fade this year and New England did last year. I just don't see the Bengals ever being better than all the top tier teams in a season.