Bengals 2010 pt. I

[macro]

I mentioned the quick turnarounds in Arizona and St. Louis earlier, and I know those franchises had been plagued by poor ownership, as well. But my question is, were those situations similar to the Bengals as far as the owner not hiring a GM and meddling in the operation of the team? In other words, is this situation a fair comparison to those?

[joshnky]

Originally Posted by macro

I mentioned the quick turnarounds in Arizona and St. Louis earlier, and I know those franchises had been plagued by poor ownership, as well. But my question is, were those situations similar to the Bengals as far as the owner not hiring a GM and meddling in the operation of the team? In other words, is this situation a fair comparison to those?

I don't think it is a fair comparison because of the relative competition those teams faced. The NFC West is an awful division and when you couple that with the fact that the NFC has been relatively down compared to the AFC over the past decade it is much easier to perform the worst to first routine. The AFC North has arguably been the strongest division in football over the past decade and with the Colts, Steelers, and Patriots consistently better than their NFC counterparts it makes it that much more difficult to get over the hump.

[Kingspoint]

Originally Posted by traderumor

This isn't college football. Coaches don't jump from team to team or entertain other offers while they are still under contract with another team. So, your jab is unfounded.

You didn't read the post. I was extremely clear. There has never been any "interest" for the worst Head Coach in the NFL. "Interest" is brandied about all the time while Head Coaches are still under contract. My jab is fact.

[Kingspoint]

Originally Posted by cincrazy

Other than containing the potential of stirring up a whole bunch of trouble, I'm not sure what this post accomplishes.

Disagreeing with the award is fine. But failing to recognize what Lewis has done in turning this franchise around is foolish.

Believing Marvin Lewis is in any way responsible for the Bengals' success and that he was deserving of Coach-of-the-Year is as foolish and gullible as one can get.

[Kingspoint]

Originally Posted by cincrazy

Before Marvin's first year, Tony Kornheiser said that if Marvin won six games, he should automatically win coach of the year honors. Which shows you how far this franchise has come under Lewis.

Oh my God! Give me a break.

Mike Brown has made the changes, not Marvin Lewis. Every thing Marvin Lewis has done has been wrong. Mike Brown tried to include him on draft day, but he took that away from him after the disaster of Chris Perry.

Mike Brown has done well since then, and it was Mike Brown who chose Housh and Chad from Oregon State. Carson Palmer was handed to them because they sucked so badly the year before. It was Marvin Lewis who insisted that Eric Ghiaciuc would be a good Center. That great thinking wasted 3 years all by itself.

If Mike Zimmer wasn't here they'd have won 6 games or less this season, and that was Mike Brown's decision. Any participation by Marvin in that decision was luck, at best on Marvin's part as we had already seen the last 4 years what he thought Defensive Coordinators credentials should be.

Marvin Lewis is a joke.

Thank you Mike Brown for the changes you've made the last few years, the drafting of Joseph and Hall, and the number of defensive 1st Round picks you've built up the last several years, no thanks to any talent evaluation going on by Marvin Lewis.

[Redsfaithful]

lol so Mike Brown chose Zimmer, but it was Marvin Lewis who chose Bresnahan. Where are you getting this stuff? Are you related to Mike Brown?

[Redsfaithful]

Originally Posted by joshnky

I don't think it is a fair comparison because of the relative competition those teams faced. The NFC West is an awful division and when you couple that with the fact that the NFC has been relatively down compared to the AFC over the past decade it is much easier to perform the worst to first routine. The AFC North has arguably been the strongest division in football over the past decade and with the Colts, Steelers, and Patriots consistently better than their NFC counterparts it makes it that much more difficult to get over the hump.

This is so true, and I wish the media would acknowledge this every once in a while. The Bengals are basically in the division with football's New York Yankees, and it's not like the Ravens are bad either. Put the Bengals in the NFC West or NFC North or somewhere comparable and Marvin arguably might have won a division title in any of these years: 03, 04, 05, 06, 07, 09

Meanwhile Shayne Graham makes one kick in 2006 and the Bengals would have been a playoff team in three of the past five years.

I just don't think it can get any better with Mike Brown owning the team.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by Reds4Life

It's hard to give Marvin a fair evaluation because of Brown's involvement. A perfect example is the staff, Brown makes those decisions, not Marvin. I think if he could have, he probably would have fired Brat several years ago.

To be fair Marvin has been given the leeway to fire two defensive coordinators. What makes you think he doesn't have the ability to determine his own coordinators?

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by traderumor

Sure, his higher responsibility makes him technically accountable for such things, but I'd have a hard time sitting in a job evaluation with Brat and saying, "well, Bob, we're going to go another direction. Too many false starts in your regime."

A lack of discipline is a very valid reason to fire an offensive coordinator. Put another way, if a team executes poorly year after year, I blame the O coordinator. The execution of this offense was atrocious in 2009 and it goes beyond false starts. It also involves poor route running by the receivers and missed blocking assignments. Simply put I can think of very little that Bratkowski did well.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

A lack of discipline is a very valid reason to fire an offensive coordinator. Put another way, if a team executes poorly year after year, I blame the O coordinator. The execution of this offense was atrocious in 2009 and it goes beyond false starts. It also involves poor route running by the receivers and missed blocking assignments. Simply put I can think of very little that Bratkowski did well.

I'd call it a blend of lack of talent (receivers) and inexperience (receivers and Oline). But, whatever.

[Tony Cloninger]

How anyone can thank Mike Brown after wasted years of the 90's and the continuing inability...to hire a competent GM or more scouts ...I mean I am stunned at the blind following that anyone would have for this person.

Mike Brown has basically said...I want to run my football operations like Pittsburgh...but I will not hire a real GM....while having a man who's experience goes as far as being a High School Coach...be the Director of Pro Football Operations (Jim Lippincott)....AND I will build my team almost 100% through the draft but have the smallest scouting department in all of football....while having my coaches ...who as if they are not busy enough during the year.... look at film of these college players and try to evaluate them within a month or 2...and personnel one on one workouts. The record of horrid draft moves and late round non factors boggle the mind.

[camisadelgolf]

When it comes to the NFL draft over the past few years, the Bengals have been about average. That's not going to cut it, but I don't think we can solely blame the size of the scouting department.

[Tony Cloninger]

I blame the ...IF not all of the 90's on Brown and his scouting staff of maybe 2. Anyone heard of Frank Smouse? He was one of the scouts and he was barely full time. The other ones you can count on half a hand. The fact that the last drafts have been average is thanks to Marvin having more pull..IMO. Which does not make it any better but it could be worse and will get worse if another puppet is installed as Head Coach.

[Redsfaithful]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

A lack of discipline is a very valid reason to fire an offensive coordinator. Put another way, if a team executes poorly year after year, I blame the O coordinator. The execution of this offense was atrocious in 2009 and it goes beyond false starts. It also involves poor route running by the receivers and missed blocking assignments. Simply put I can think of very little that Bratkowski did well.

They definitely need a new wide receivers coach, but I can't put poor route running on Bratkowski. He's calling plays and designing a playbook, not coaching up receivers.

[Redhook]

Originally Posted by Kingspoint

Marvin Lewis is a joke.

Thank you Mike Brown for the changes you've made the last few years, the drafting of Joseph and Hall, and the number of defensive 1st Round picks you've built up the last several years, no thanks to any talent evaluation going on by Marvin Lewis.

Now C'mon. Thanking Mike Brown for anything is taking it too far. I understand your dislike for Marvin, but Mike Brown hasn't changed and is certainly not the reason the Bengals have had 2 winning seasons out of the last 5. Mike Brown is an embarrassment to Cincinnati Bengals football and that will likely never change.