Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year

[Will M]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

Apologists for his poor defensive stats last year are saying Oakland has terrible IF conditions and Minnesota's artificial turf may have been a bit quick for him. It's only 1 year against a backdrop of good numbers, so I'm not real worried about his D.

looking at fangraphs data his poor 2009 defense seems to be due to a large part in a big increase in errors from 16 to 25. this would be consistent with what you state above. if so that is a good thing as it could just be an abberration as opposed to him 'losing it' defensively

[membengal]

I don't hate it. Cabrera's a pro, and teams he has been on have been pretty damn successful. And, since we know Dusty will bat him second, he's not the worst choice on the team for that spot. With Janish around for late game glove work if need be, Cabrera is a nice bridge to Cozart and the ones behind him in the minors.

[fearofpopvol1]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

I think you can pretty much pencil Cabrera in to the #2 spot in the lineup. I'd put money on it if I could.

I agree with this...this is what the lineup will look like I think (though Dusty may toy around before decidicing on this lineup).

Stubbs (or Dickerson)
Cabrera
Votto
Phillips
Rolen
Bruce
Gomes/Francisco/Dickerson/Balentien
C
P

There is a chance he might swap Rolen with Phillips' spot.

What it should be I think is this...

Dickerson/Stubbs
Rolen
Votto
Bruce
Phillips
LF
Catcher
Cabrera
Pitcher

[TRF]

Originally Posted by Will M

looking at fangraphs data his poor 2009 defense seems to be due to a large part in a big increase in errors from 16 to 25. this would be consistent with what you state above. if so that is a good thing as it could just be an abberration as opposed to him 'losing it' defensively

one step slower and balls caught nick the end of the glove. And he's 35. And it isn't 1998.

I loved the Chapman signing. I'm not a fan of this one. Especially if Cozart tears up ST. Cozart's glove is ML ready, he has great range, and some decent pop in his bat. He might need another year, and he might just need 2 months. Last year the search for a LF masked the fact that the Reds had no SS ready. This year SS is masking what could potentially be the weakest OF the Reds have put out in a decade. I've never been convinced Stubbs will hit enough, I like Dickerson or even better Heisey in CF. LF is a mess and Gomes is NOT the answer, he's a question mark. Wlad is unproven outside the PCL, Nix is another injury about to happen. Dickerson's bat and glove play better in CF.

Walt has made some very good moves this offseason. I don't believe this is one of them. I'd rather he threw 6-7 mil at Damon and kept Janish at SS.

[Jpup]

Originally Posted by TRF

one step slower and balls caught nick the end of the glove. And he's 35. And it isn't 1998.

I loved the Chapman signing. I'm not a fan of this one. Especially if Cozart tears up ST. Cozart's glove is ML ready, he has great range, and some decent pop in his bat. He might need another year, and he might just need 2 months. Last year the search for a LF masked the fact that the Reds had no SS ready. This year SS is masking what could potentially be the weakest OF the Reds have put out in a decade. I've never been convinced Stubbs will hit enough, I like Dickerson or even better Heisey in CF. LF is a mess and Gomes is NOT the answer, he's a question mark. Wlad is unproven outside the PCL, Nix is another injury about to happen. Dickerson's bat and glove play better in CF.

Walt has made some very good moves this offseason. I don't believe this is one of them. I'd rather he threw 6-7 mil at Damon and kept Janish at SS.

This.

[SirFelixCat]

If Cozart is tearing up AAA, I don't think Cabrera's contract makes him an auto-starter. I think if Cozart forces his way up, then he could supplant Cabrera. Not saying he will or that he will, but I think it's reasonable to think that it could happen.

[marcshoe]

If Cozart's really the answer, that's all for the better. I'm not convinced he has the bat, but if he does, okay. I've been wanting the Reds to pick up a surplus young shortstop from elsewhere, but that didn't seem to be a possibility this off season without hurting the future (in other words, you weren't going to get one for Arroyo or Harang.) In the meantime, I'm tired of waiting. It's time this team quits naming some future year and puts a major league team on the field now. Sure, Damon would have been nice for left field, but shortstop was a greater need. There was no one in house who belonged in a major league lineup.

This move doesn't shoot off fireworks on its own, but it's an important piece. It helps solidify.

[WVRedsFan]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

I was hoping it would be a minor league contract, or at worst a one-year deal worth no more than $2M. I'm not sure how much of an improvement Cabrera is over Janish at this point in his career. If Cabrera returns to 2008 form, he'll be a fairly big improvement over Janish. If he has another season like 2009 then he'll actually be a downgrade. Let's hope he can play more like the 2008 Orlando Cabrera instead of the 2009 version.

Of course I wasn't looking at fielding statistics, but 2008 and 2009 seem like almost identical years--and pretty good ones. In 08, his line was
.281/.334/.705 and in 09 it was 0284/.316/.705. He hits for a higher average against lefties, but hits for higher average against lefties. His stats are respectible. Looks like a good signing to me, but like you say, let's hope a 36-year old Cabrera only comes back if we want him.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by tixe

If Cozart's really the answer, that's all for the better. I'm not convinced he has the bat, but if he does, okay. I've been wanting the Reds to pick up a surplus young shortstop from elsewhere, but that didn't seem to be a possibility this off season without hurting the future (in other words, you weren't going to get one for Arroyo or Harang.) In the meantime, I'm tired of waiting. It's time this team quits naming some future year and puts a major league team on the field now. Sure, Damon would have been nice for left field, but shortstop was a greater need. There was no one in house who belonged in a major league lineup.

This move doesn't shoot off fireworks on its own, but it's an important piece. It helps solidify.

x2

IF Cozart really forces the issue, Cabrera can be moved at midseason, just like he was last year. With that contract he is far from untradeable.

[RedLegSuperStar]

Originally Posted by Ron Madden

I wonder why there has been no official announcement from the Reds yet.

It's been placed on reds.com I'm sure once the physical is passed there will be a presser.. Monday at noon is my guess

[Will M]

IMO Zach Cozart is not ready for the bigs. He is a 24 yr old prospect who just had an OPS of 758 in AA. could he be a big league SS some day? sure. is he going to be ready opening day 2010? no way.

[Spring~Fields]

Originally Posted by Will M

looking at fangraphs data his poor 2009 defense seems to be due to a large part in a big increase in errors from 16 to 25. this would be consistent with what you state above. if so that is a good thing as it could just be an abberration as opposed to him 'losing it' defensively

The shortstop errors for the entire Reds team last year only shows 11 errors between all the players that played short for the Reds. If Cabrera makes that many errors then the defense is not getting an upgrade.

He had 16 errors in 2008, 11 errors 2007, 16 errors in 2006

Reds shortstop errors link

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/...ng?team=cin#ss

Are you folks sure the Reds are going to get that much offense from this guy to off-set his errors, and the hit that runs allowed might take and the run differential?

2009 .311 OBP against RH, 2008 .327 against RH, 2007 .339 against RH

[11larkin11]

You also have to remember, he'll be flanked by Brandon Phillips to his left, Scott Rolen to his left, Drew Stubbs to his back left, and possibly Chris Dickerson/Chris Heisey to his back right. Anything up the middle is Phillips' anways, so he can shift his range a bit to his right.

[Will M]

Originally Posted by Spring~Fields

The shortstop errors for the entire Reds team last year only shows 11 errors between all the players that played short for the Reds. If Cabrera makes that many errors then the defense is not getting an upgrade.

He had 16 errors in 2008, 11 errors 2007, 16 errors in 2006

Reds shortstop errors link

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/...ng?team=cin#ss

Are you folks sure the Reds are going to get that much offense from this guy to off-set his errors, and the hit that runs allowed might take and the run differential?

2009 .311 OBP against RH, 2008 .327 against RH, 2007 .339 against RH

i know what you are saying but imo signing Cabrera is a better move than going with what we have in house. i have to trust the front office that they did their homework a bit & feel OC's defense will be more 2005-2008 rather than 2009. if it is then we is worth a lot more than Janish even if his OBP isn't that great. remember he's a SS not a slugger. plus we are comparing him to Paul 'Mendoza Line' Janish

[RedEye]

With all the discussion of Cozart, I started thinking... I wonder if Cozarts ML upside is actually right around where Orlando Cabrera was in his prime? Good D, competent bat with some pop. Sound right?