Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by REDREAD

Jocketty is kind of backed into a corner though.

What else is he going to say? "To be honest, Janish only got playing time because there was no SS depth in the organization. I doubt his bat ever develops, but he still has value as a cheap inf backup, kind of like the young Juan Castro?"

Every time a vet is brought in and a youngster is pushed to the bench, a GM will make a comment about how they haven't given up on the kid and the kid will still get plenty of playing time.

I agree. He can't say that because it's going to make Janish's confidence level sink like a rock.

[BRM]

Originally Posted by TRF

I'm saying it, not because I love all things Janish. I just think signing a 35 year old SS coming off his worst season defensively is a bad idea. I think Cozart could be ready by June, and I think if the OF's offense is clicking, you can hide Janish' bat in the 8 hole and his defense will take care of the rest.

That last sentence contains some mighty big "ifs".

[Jpup]

Do we believe that Cozart can OPS .700 in the majors? He certainly isn't an OBP giant. He did about average at Carolina last year, but his OBP numbers at Dayton were pretty low. He definitely needs to prove himself at Louisville before being thrown to the fire.

[TRF]

Originally Posted by BRM

That last sentence contains some mighty big "ifs".

yup. not denying that at all.

Originally Posted by Jpup

Do we believe that Cozart can OPS .700 in the majors? He certainly isn't an OBP giant. He did about average at Carolina last year, but his OBP numbers at Dayton were pretty low. He definitely needs to prove himself at Louisville before being thrown to the fire.

He's more pop than OBP, but in my mind he's similar to Cabrera in that sense.

[Tony Cloninger]

I just saw that Felipe Lopez was the 5th ranked 2B using the UZR stat.

I have never used the "roll eyes" prompt before but this stat really deserved it. Mark Teixeira was ranked pretty low as well. You are going to tell me that is correct?

People here seem to think Rosales will turn into the 1979 version of Ray Knight...not the 1977-78 one. I guess we will have to see....but I think it's more people liking Adam, beacuse he is a Reds farmhand and plays the game hard and runs like Rose. Just the same way that people do not like Miles being called a gamer and whatever other cliche you want to throw out there.

I am not down on Adam and I like him but I think we can all deal with losing him beacuse there possible and most likely better options coming up.
I also quit being sentimental on any player after Rose left in FA when i was 12.

[RedEye]

Originally Posted by TRF

He's more pop than OBP, but in my mind he's similar to Cabrera in that sense.

Interesting that you think this, too. I've often thought that Cozart could be similar to Cabrera if and when he establishes himself as a major leaguer. It would be great if the Reds farm system could generate a starting quality SS on that level for this team. Also, even though we don't yet know how Cozart will pan out, he is already SO much more than I expected when they drafted him. At the time, I thought it was a wasted pick, as the scouting reports basically made him sound like the second coming of Janish. I think we know now that, whatever happens, Cozart will probably hit more than that.

[RedsManRick]

Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger

I just saw that Felipe Lopez was the 5th ranked 2B using the UZR stat.

I have never used the "roll eyes" prompt before but this stat really deserved it. Mark Teixeira was ranked pretty low as well. You are going to tell me that is correct?

1) UZR is a performance measure and, just like on offense, guys have good and bad years. I find it interesting that people want defense metrics to be absolute measures of skill while they fully understand offensive performance has a good deal of variability. Did you see Lopez play 2B all year? Did you see Teixeira? Or are you basing that assessment off of their established reputations?

2) UZR needs 3 seasons worth to have a sample size equal to 1 year of offensive performance. If you looked at the offensive stat leaderboards June 1st, I think you'd find comparable issues. You need something like 4000 innings in the field to give you the same level of accuracy you get from 650 PA. You look back a few years, and you find out that Lopez is a poor SS and a slightly above average 2B. Teixeira grades out as a slightly above average 1B - but I don't think that counts the defensive value of scoops, which is where he excels the most.

[RedEye]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

1) UZR is a performance measure and, just like on offense, guys have good and bad years. I find it interesting that people want defense metrics to be absolute measures of skill while they fully understand offensive performance has a good deal of variability. Did you see Lopez play 2B all year? Did you see Teixeira? Or are you basing that assessment off of their established reputations?

2) UZR needs 3 seasons worth to have a sample size equal to 1 year of offensive performance. If you looked at the offensive stat leaderboards June 1st, I think you'd find comparable issues. You need something like 4000 innings in the field to give you the same level of accuracy you get from 650 PA. You look back a few years, and you find out that Lopez is a poor SS and a slightly above average 2B. Teixeira grades out as a slightly above average 1B - but I don't think that counts the defensive value of scoops, which is where he excels the most.

This is interesting... are there any defensive metrics that are more specialized for the skills specific to individual positions? It seems silly to rate a 1B, to my mind, without taking into account how well he catches throws to his position. Likewise, for a 2B or SS, for example, turning the double play would seem to be important...

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by RedEye

This is interesting... are there any defensive metrics that are more specialized for the skills specific to individual positions? It seems silly to rate a 1B, to my mind, without taking into account how well he catches throws to his position. Likewise, for a 2B or SS, for example, turning the double play would seem to be important...

Seems like that would effect the #'s of his fellow IF's moreso. Probably no way to even get a general read unless you check the Yankees IF's of '08 with the Yankee IF's of '09, sans 1B of course. I would think he would save them alot of throwing errors, didn't Jeter have a good year in that dept?

[Bumstead]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

Seems like that would effect the #'s of his fellow IF's moreso. Probably no way to even get a general read unless you check the Yankees IF's of '08 with the Yankee IF's of '09, sans 1B of course. I would think he would save them alot of throwing errors, didn't Jeter have a good year in that dept?

You mean Jeter the Gold Glover?? haha...Jeter hit well enough to win another Gold Glove! Well done MLB! I think UZR is over-used on this site along with WAR but that's JMHO. I think it is very hard to statistically measure how good a player is defensively. I think watching day in and day out certainly will give one a better idea than just looking at stats and boxing a player into a category. Too many variables on defense for stats to pick everything up...now, if you are playing a video game and picking Gold Gloves then UZR is probably a fine tool...

Bum

[Reds1]

Topic title needs updated. His 1st year is only 2MM and option year is 4MM.

[AmarilloRed]

Cabrera will be a stopgap until we get a SS from the minors or can arrange a trade. The option will be picked up if we don't have anything better ready next year.

[OnBaseMachine]

From Mark Sheldon's twitter:

For those who dig #reds uniform numbers...latest roster I have says O. Cabrera switched from No. 9 to No. 2. Aaron Miles is No. 3

Coincidentally, that's four straight SS on #reds to have worn No. 2 -- Felipe Lopez, Royce Clayton, Alex Gonzalez and Orlando Cabrera

http://twitter.com/m_sheldon

Other number changes:

Wladimir Balentien switched from #28 to #25 and Chris Heisey was issued #28.

[sonny]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

From Mark Sheldon's twitter:

For those who dig #reds uniform numbers...latest roster I have says O. Cabrera switched from No. 9 to No. 2. Aaron Miles is No. 3

Coincidentally, that's four straight SS on #reds to have worn No. 2 -- Felipe Lopez, Royce Clayton, Alex Gonzalez and Orlando Cabrera

http://twitter.com/m_sheldon

Other number changes:

Wladimir Balentien switched from #28 to #25 and Chris Heisey was issued #28.

28 for Heisey. Pretty good indication he's a favorite to win a roster spot, dontcha think?

[Ron Madden]

I'm probably wrong but I don't think uniform numbers mean quite as much on the totem pole of talent as they once did.