Alonso trying 3B, OF. Jocketty: "I don't see us moving Joey"

[Ron Madden]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

Just another thought here. How long do you think you would keep your job if Pujols didn't want to move to 3rd for Fielder, because according to you he would be gone?!

Pujols and Fielder don't count.

They were not drafted by the Reds since Doug became a Fan..




just needeling you a bit Doug, all in fun no malice intended.

[lollipopcurve]

Let's not forget that moving Votto to LF this season -- based, per Doug, on the theoretical hot two months Alonso is going to have in AAA -- blows up playing time for Gomes, Dickerson, and possibly Heisey, Frazier and Balentien, all of whom have to this point shown more on the field than Alonso, and all of whom, with the possible exception of Gomes, are better (in some cases, much better) defenders than Votto would be.

It's such a bad idea right now. Doesn't mean things won't be different in the future, of course, but at this point it's ludicrous for a handful of reasons.

[bucksfan2]

This situation kind of reminds me of the Cleveland Indians in the mid 90's. They had Jim Thome at 1b with guys like Richie Sexson and Sean Casey coming up in the pipeline. Both Sexson and Casey were dealt to add missing pieces to the Indians.

To me minor leaguers are pawns. Some you protect and some you sacrifice. If Alonso goes gang busters in AAA this season that only increases his trade value. If he does I sit down with Votto and discuss the situation. I work out a contract extension with him at the same time but also talk about his thoughts on a move to LF. If he is against it, then I trade Alonso, if he is for it then I see how it goes.

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

To me minor leaguers are pawns. Some you protect and some you sacrifice.

Yup.

I feel that sometimes people become so attached to Reds prospects as they come up through the system that they often forget that these guys are just assets that need to be cultivated, shuffled, and cultivated again until the end result is a 25 man roster that can win major league games.

[Bumstead]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

Let's not forget that moving Votto to LF this season -- based, per Doug, on the theoretical hot two months Alonso is going to have in AAA -- blows up playing time for Gomes, Dickerson, and possibly Heisey, Frazier and Balentien, all of whom have to this point shown more on the field than Alonso, and all of whom, with the possible exception of Gomes, are better (in some cases, much better) defenders than Votto would be.

It's such a bad idea right now. Doesn't mean things won't be different in the future, of course, but at this point it's ludicrous for a handful of reasons.

Yeah...it would be horrible to have lesser players get less playing time...ha I agree that right now is not the time to worry about it, but to say 100% that Votto won't have to move to LF is just being naive when looking at Alonso's abilities. I know everyone is a big fan of Joey, and I am as well, but if putting Alonso at 1B and Votto in LF in 2011 is what gives the Reds the best chance to win then so be it. If you think that can't change based on what Jockety said the other day then again you are naive. Trading Alonso or Votto may not be what makes the Reds the best they can be; keeping them both may be what gives the Reds their best chance to win. And yeah, there is a small chance that Alonso doesn't develop, but to downplay his talent or call him a DH is a bit silly at this point; of course there is also about the same chance that Votto gets hurt or goes the other direction in his hitting. I just don't believe that Votto would refuse to move, but we will find out when/if the time comes.

Bum

[lollipopcurve]

Yeah...it would be horrible to have lesser players get less playing time...ha I agree that right now is not the time to worry about it, but to say 100% that Votto won't have to move to LF is just being naive when looking at Alonso's abilities. I know everyone is a big fan of Joey, and I am as well, but if putting Alonso at 1B and Votto in LF in 2011 is what gives the Reds the best chance to win then so be it. If you think that can't change based on what Jockety said the other day then again you are naive. Trading Alonso or Votto may not be what makes the Reds the best they can be; keeping them both may be what gives the Reds their best chance to win. And yeah, there is a small chance that Alonso doesn't develop, but to downplay his talent or call him a DH is a bit silly at this point; of course there is also about the same chance that Votto gets hurt or goes the other direction in his hitting. I just don't believe that Votto would refuse to move, but we will find out when/if the time comes.

The debate is not about 2011. It's about asking Votto to play LF against his wishes and in this spring training. You're assigning arguments to people who aren't making them.

[GoReds]

Votto was originally a catcher, correct? When he moved to first, his defense was considered below average, but he's put in the work and is now above average.

I can see Rolen being here for this year and next. Wonder if Joey would consider third base a challenge?

[Degenerate39]

Originally Posted by GoReds

Votto was originally a catcher, correct? When he moved to first, his defense was considered below average, but he's put in the work and is now above average.

I can see Rolen being here for this year and next. Wonder if Joey would consider third base a challenge?

I'm sure Joey would play where ever they asked him too. But I'd rather see Frazier be at 3rd base. If they can get Alonso to do even half way decent defensively at left field I'd say put him there. His bat will probably be good enough to carry him any where he plays

[Bumstead]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

The debate is not about 2011. It's about asking Votto to play LF against his wishes and in this spring training. You're assigning arguments to people who aren't making them.

I wasn't referring to you Lollipop...I only referred to one sentence of your post. Sorry about that. I could name the posters on here making the exact argument that I stated but they know who they are.

Funny, I have not heard Joey say that he would not move to LF. Of course, I don't care either but, I haven't heard it either.

[redsmetz]

Originally Posted by Bumstead

I wasn't referring to you Lollipop...I only referred to one sentence of your post. Sorry about that. I could name the posters on here making the exact argument that I stated but they know who they are.

Funny, I have not heard Joey say that he would not move to LF. Of course, I don't care either but, I haven't heard it either.

I can't recall ever actually seeing a quote from Votto refusing to play LF or even stating a desire not to. It's always struck me as more "urban legend" that keeps getting bandied about. His character doesn't seem like the type to make such a stand.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by redsmetz

I can't recall ever actually seeing a quote from Votto refusing to play LF or even stating a desire not to. It's always struck me as more "urban legend" that keeps getting bandied about. His character doesn't seem like the type to make such a stand.

I think there was an article last spring, IIRC.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by redsmetz

I can't recall ever actually seeing a quote from Votto refusing to play LF or even stating a desire not to. It's always struck me as more "urban legend" that keeps getting bandied about. His character doesn't seem like the type to make such a stand.

So if he said he'd prefer to play 1st base than to move to another position then that is some kind of stand? And FWIW he's never been asked to and thusly never refused to, but he has said that he would prefer to stay where he is at, but took no stand. I did read it on RZ i'm fairly sure but not positive where.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

So if he said he'd prefer to play 1st base than to move to another position then that is some kind of stand? And FWIW he's never been asked to and thusly never refused to, but he has said that he would prefer to stay where he is at, but took no stand. I did read it on RZ i'm fairly sure but not positive where.

I believe this is correct. I have not seen anywhere that Votto has flat out said no to moving. I have seen where he said he would rather stay and I have seen where the team said they aren't asking him.

[redsmetz]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

I believe this is correct. I have not seen anywhere that Votto has flat out said no to moving. I have seen where he said he would rather stay and I have seen where the team said they aren't asking him.

There is a big distinction there. Often it's bandied about here that Votto has refused. I think it's a non-issue because the club has not asked that he move and he has not refused.

[Eric_the_Red]

So, Votto has never stated that he would not change positions, Votto hasn't been asked to change positions, and Alonso isn't ready to take Votto's position now anyway.

....

Why does this thread have 14 pages?