Drew Stubbs

[Sea Ray]

Maybe it's just my perception but it seems to me that Stubbs has significantly contributed to a lot of wins this year through his hitting defense and base running. I don't have any stats to back that up but it seems like he's been in the middle of game winning rallies a lot.

[LoganBuck]

What is funny is that I am growing accustomed to whenever the ball goes in the air, I expect Stubbs to catch it. When Morse hit that gap shot double off Cordero in the ninth, I was expecting Stubbs to run it down. He is spoiling me.

[bucksfan2]

The only complaint I have with Stubbs defense, and it really isn't much of a complaint, is he plays a deeper CF than most great CF's I have seen. He tracks the ball very well into the corners but he doesn't get to many bloop hits that shallower CF's get to.

[fugowitribe]

If I had to complain about Drew Stubbs, I would bring up his play around the wall. He and the other Reds' OFers are not exactly the most graceful when it comes to balls hit off or to the wall. It seems like they always get there, but then their nerves or excitment get the best of them and we end up with walk off Grand Slams and Crashes into the wall as the ball bounces out into play.

[nate]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Maybe it's just my perception but it seems to me that Stubbs has significantly contributed to a lot of wins this year through his hitting defense and base running. I don't have any stats to back that up but it seems like he's been in the middle of game winning rallies a lot.

He currently is at 0.6 WAR. I think UZR is selling him short in CF so that's probably a little lighter than his true contribution. As the season goes on, UZR will capture his defensive value more accurately and he could end up with the 2-ish WAR projection.

[UKFlounder]

Is Stubbs an example of player "development" i.e. he wasn't an instant star, but by being allowed to keep playing he has shown and developed his skills and is becoming a contributing (at least) player? Is this how "player development" is supposed to work?

[TRF]

Originally Posted by UKFlounder

Is Stubbs an example of player "development" i.e. he wasn't an instant star, but by being allowed to keep playing he has shown and developed his skills and is becoming a contributing (at least) player? Is this how "player development" is supposed to work?

I don't think so. The minors are for development, and he was miscast in the minors as a leadoff hitter. The power potential was there, but never used. Lower in the order he seems to be allowing his instincts to surface rather than what he was "taught" he should be.

[UKFlounder]

Good point.

Still I like that they put him in the lineup and let him play, instead of benching or sending him down when he struggled. (Of course, I recognize that part of that is that last year's team was bad enough to be able to afford that and even at the start of this year, there were questions about the Reds ability to compete. A true contender may not have been able to be so patient.)

Originally Posted by TRF

I don't think so. The minors are for development, and he was miscast in the minors as a leadoff hitter. The power potential was there, but never used. Lower in the order he seems to be allowing his instincts to surface rather than what he was "taught" he should be.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by TRF

I don't think so. The minors are for development, and he was miscast in the minors as a leadoff hitter. The power potential was there, but never used. Lower in the order he seems to be allowing his instincts to surface rather than what he was "taught" he should be.

Your opinion of Stubbs and his development has generated a lot challenges from others around here but to your credit, recent happenings continue to support your case

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Your opinion of Stubbs and his development has generated a lot challenges from others around here but to your credit, recent happenings continue to support your case

I'd remind him that he insisted Stubbs didn't have any power, and clearly that's not the case

I still think it's silly to suggest Stubbs can't be an effective leadoff hitter based on what is happening this year. I think the only thing we can conclude (yet) is that he's young and is more comfortable (at least for now) without the pressure of being a leadoff hitter.

Once Stubbs is confident in his abilities, begins recognizing pitches, makes adjustments to how he's pitched, etc., there is nothing stopping him from being a good leadoff guy. He values patience, has speed and would help distract pitchers from the middle of the Reds' order. What's happening right now is not an indictment on where he ultimately should hit, but where he feels more comfortable now.

[VR]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

I'd remind him that he insisted Stubbs didn't have any power, and clearly that's not the case

I still think it's silly to suggest Stubbs can't be an effective leadoff hitter based on what is happening this year. I think the only thing we can conclude (yet) is that he's young and is more comfortable (at least for now) without the pressure of being a leadoff hitter.

Once Stubbs is confident in his abilities, begins recognizing pitches, makes adjustments to how he's pitched, etc., there is nothing stopping him from being a good leadoff guy. He values patience, has speed and would help distract pitchers from the middle of the Reds' order. What's happening right now is not an indictment on where he ultimately should hit, but where he feels more comfortable now.

I'm feeling more and more strongly that the 2 spot might be his long term home.
He may not have the 'contact' bat that some prefer there. If the leadoff guy is on...he has the patience to let him steal, the power to get him home, and the ability to stay out of the DP on ground balls.

[TRF]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Your opinion of Stubbs and his development has generated a lot challenges from others around here but to your credit, recent happenings continue to support your case

I think there is a human element to the game that often gets overlooked. Much like Todd Coffey wasn't suited to close, but often excelled in the setup role. Sometimes players shouldn't hit in certain slots.

Brandon Phillips as the #2 hitter: .304 .370 .478 .848

Yes, it's 115 AB's, but for whatever reason, he's been tremendous there. Is his approach different? His mindset? I have no idea, but it sure is working.


Stubbs as the #7 hitter, 91 AB's .330 .386 .571 .957. That is an astounding line. It's a Joey Votto line. Add in his defense, and he's likely the team's best player.

Do you have any idea how hard that was for me to type?!

And all it took was about a month's worth of AB's, losing PT to Dickerson trying to figure out how to get him going. All it took was for Baker to see he's not a leadoff hitter. I can't say enough about how he has managed Stubbs this year. I wouldn't move him up higher in the lineup this year at all. Next year, I'd try him in the 6th spot, but for now, for this year, he'd be written in pen at #7

[TRF]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

I'd remind him that he insisted Stubbs didn't have any power, and clearly that's not the case

I still think it's silly to suggest Stubbs can't be an effective leadoff hitter based on what is happening this year. I think the only thing we can conclude (yet) is that he's young and is more comfortable (at least for now) without the pressure of being a leadoff hitter.

Once Stubbs is confident in his abilities, begins recognizing pitches, makes adjustments to how he's pitched, etc., there is nothing stopping him from being a good leadoff guy. He values patience, has speed and would help distract pitchers from the middle of the Reds' order. What's happening right now is not an indictment on where he ultimately should hit, but where he feels more comfortable now.

What I said, and you can look it up, is if you have power but you don't use it, then you don't have power. I stand by that.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by TRF

What I said, and you can look it up, is if you have power but you don't use it, then you don't have power. I stand by that.

Right. And I get that argument. But you were concluding that because he wasn't using it in the minor leagues that therefore it didn't exist. The crux of the issue was that many players don't start developing their power until closer to 'prime' age and thereby it doesn't start showing until they're in the majors.

The old adage, "minor league doubles become major league homers," applies here. If you look at Stubbs' extra base hit percentage from the minors until now, it's virtually the same - but those doubles are going now for home runs.

Major League XBH% - 7.5%
Minor League XBH% - 7.6%

The difference is that he's now hitting homers at 3.5% in the majors versus 1.6% in the minors.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by TRF

What I said, and you can look it up, is if you have power but you don't use it, then you don't have power. I stand by that.

And I still say its wrong. Willy Taveras does not have power. Corey Patterson does. Neither guy used it in Cincinnati, but one guy had it and one guy didn't. There is a large difference between using it and having the ability to use it. Some guys don't have it. Some guys don't use it. Large difference. Stubbs has always had it. He just didn't always use it.