Cliff Lee

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Benihana

I'm still intrigued by the possibility of trading Bailey as a PTBNL if he can show that he is healthy. The guy could clearly use a change of scenery if nothing else.

I am not. I give him one more go around as a starter either at the end of this season or into next year. If he doesn't work I put him in the pen. I am exhausting all of my resources when it comes to Bailey. It may end up backfiring and the Reds won't be able to get anything of value out of him, but with some players I am willing to roll that dice.

[REDREAD]

Well, I've thought a bit more.

It was a bit harsh to say we are just a little over .500 this year.

I would be on board with getting Lee if they get bullpen help too.
I still think that next year is going to be a better opportunity to go for it, although I can understand that after 15 years, people don't want to risk waiting for it

The way I see it, the risks next year are that Rolen and Gomes will not be as good as they were this year. I think the continued improvement of young players and Volquez having more time to rest will offset that.

[Falls City Beer]

This team still has to play a bunch of games against the far superior NL West. I'm not sure I buy that this team is a whole lot better than a bit north of .500. Get Volquez back healthy and add an ace, then we're talking.

[OnBaseMachine]

Article from the St. Louis Globe-Democrat:

There is virtually no chance that Lee will be wearing a Cardinal uniform anytime soon. But what Cardinal fans have to hope is that the left-handed starter is not donning a Reds uniform before the first of August.

The teams mentioned most frequently are the Twins, Mets, Dodgers, Rangers, Yankees .., and Reds. It will be a bidding war.

The next best club in a position to deal is the one which should concern Cardinals fans – the Reds. They have a former first-round draft pick, Yonder Alonso, playing first base in Triple A, a position he is not likely to take away from Joey Votto anytime soon. They have a young outfielder in Chris Helsey, who led the minor leagues in hits and total bases last year. They also could move catcher Devin Mesoraco, after drafting a catcher in the first round this year, and a pitcher, such as Homer Bailey or left-hander Travis Wood.

Not only would Lee improve the Reds, he might make them the favorite to win the NL Central, and perhaps the pennant and World Series.

http://www.globe-democrat.com/news/2...-will-interes/

[TheNext44]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

Article from the St. Louis Globe-Democrat:









http://www.globe-democrat.com/news/2...-will-interes/

Thanks, great stuff.

I think it's a two team war, with the Twins having a clear edge over the Reds. Their top prospect is better than the Reds top prospect, and a catcher. Hard for the M's to choose Alonso over Ramos. But well see....

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by TheNext44

Thanks, great stuff.

I think it's a two team war, with the Twins having a clear edge over the Reds. Their top prospect is better than the Reds top prospect, and a catcher. Hard for the M's to choose Alonso over Ramos. But well see....

Has anyone been paying attention to Ramos? The guy is hitting .209/.243/.318 in AA. I keep hearing everywhere that he is some big prospect (ESPN/MLB Network) when it comes to this trade.... He has never had an OPS oveer .800 in a season (seriously, don't count his 1.200 in rookie ball on a rehab boosting his .795 in AA last year over .800 for the 'full season'). He has Juan Francisco type plate discipline. Now the kid is supposed to be a good catcher defensively, so that certainly works in his favor.... but that is the guy who is supposed to give the Twins the edge over the Reds in this deal?

[TheNext44]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Has anyone been paying attention to Ramos? The guy is hitting .209/.243/.318 in AA. I keep hearing everywhere that he is some big prospect (ESPN/MLB Network) when it comes to this trade.... He has never had an OPS oveer .800 in a season (seriously, don't count his 1.200 in rookie ball on a rehab boosting his .795 in AA last year over .800 for the 'full season'). He has Juan Francisco type plate discipline. Now the kid is supposed to be a good catcher defensively, so that certainly works in his favor.... but that is the guy who is supposed to give the Twins the edge over the Reds in this deal?

Thanks. I've been going strickly on what others have been saying, particularly the "experts" on the major sites and shows. Good to get a solid report on what he's actually doing. I did read that he needed to walk more, but I had no idea he was in Francisco territory.

This definitely makes me feel better about the Reds chances.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by TheNext44

Thanks. I've been going strickly on what others have been saying, particularly the "experts" on the major sites and shows. Good to get a solid report on what he's actually doing. I did read that he needed to walk more, but I had no idea he was in Francisco territory.

This definitely makes me feel better about the Reds chances.

If the Reds want Cliff Lee, they can get him. They absolutely have the parts without touching the MLB roster, short of Travis Wood, who may be needed. I don't think the Reds make the move though, but if they wanted to, they absolutely could get it done.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by Benihana

I'm still intrigued by the possibility of trading Bailey as a PTBNL if he can show that he is healthy. The guy could clearly use a change of scenery if nothing else.

I'm starting to think any of the young pitchers could be traded in the right situation.
Even if you assume the Reds don't bring back either Harang or Arroyo,(and I wouldn't bet the farm on that assumption.) That likely leaves just one spot open for Bailey, Wood, Maloney, Matt Klinker and anyone else I'm forgetting. (I'm assuming Volquez, Cueto, Leake, and Chapman will make the rotation.)

So if we have to trade any one or even two of these guys to get someone who would all but guarantee the Reds a playoff birth. I'm all for it.

Trading for Cliff Lee improves the bullpen simply by the fact it's an extra day when the 6th and 7th inning guys won't pitch.

[nemesis]

I keep hearing about the two draft picks we get for Lee, Two draft picks we get for Lee. And? So we get 2 guys who may or may not make it out of A+? Wood is a draft pick. A second rounder and in the Majors. Mez ia a high first rounder and the best offensive catcher in the Minors right now. Who knows what we get with those draft picks. It could be a Billy Hamilton or a Chris Gruler. Bird in hand is way more valuable than 2 in the bush. Mez and Wood give you 6 years of production and both will still be under 30 after those 6 years. This team can win the division without Lee this year and if you don't trade the wrong pieces for the next 3 or 4 years. I'd rather see a long tern run vs a one year wonder. Don't forget 1999 to 2000. Trading Tomko and Cameron was a part of the teams long term spiral. There were other factors, but keeping those two might have change this teams fortunes.

Also Texas had all those catchers yes. Yes none have lived up to the billing. But were not Texas. Mez isn't Ramirez, Teagarden or Saltamaccha, he's Devon. Let him be him. That be like saying he is going to be Mauer. You don't deal pieces like Mez, you collect them.

[Mario-Rijo]

I don't know about Cliff Lee, or rather his acquisition being what we need to really make a go of it. Certainly I wouldn't say no to acquiring him. Though I think he is a smidge overrated. Well perhaps a poor choice of words there let's just say I think he'd be a quite a bit less effective as a Red. The Reds hit him fairly well in the game we played against him in Seattle if that game is in Cincy he gets run after 5 or so probably. In his career he has 5 starts in GABP and has given up 7 jacks there which is tied with U.S. cellular field and now Safeco for the parks he has given up the most HR's in. He has 9 Starts (almost double to GABP) at US cellular and 14 in Safeco. He also has the 3rd highest OPS against (in fields with more than one start) in GABP. The others are Boston and Texas 2 other hitters parks. He seems like a great fit for say the LA Dodgers, which should go ahead and make the plunge themselves this season (Mannys last).

If they would do it I'd rather go after Ted Lilly if anyone, I think he's a solid fit for likely much less in prospects.

[Blitz Dorsey]

I meant to mention this earlier: I heard that little weasel Keith Law on Colin Cowherd's radio show yesterday and he didn't mention the Reds once as a candidate to land Lee. What a tool. He doesn't exactly do his homework. He even mentioned the Twins and not the Reds! He mentioned the Yankees, Twins, etc, but never the Reds and they talked about Lee for a long time. At least throw the Reds in there since they are in fact in the running. Can't stand Keith Law.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey

I meant to mention this earlier: I heard that little weasel Keith Law on Colin Cowherd's radio show yesterday and he didn't mention the Reds once as a candidate to land Lee. What a tool. He doesn't exactly do his homework. He even mentioned the Twins and not the Reds! He mentioned the Yankees, Twins, etc, but never the Reds and they talked about Lee for a long time. At least throw the Reds in there since they are in fact in the running. Can't stand Keith Law.

Perhaps the Reds just aren't interested?

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by nemesis

I keep hearing about the two draft picks we get for Lee, Two draft picks we get for Lee. And? So we get 2 guys who may or may not make it out of A+? Wood is a draft pick. A second rounder and in the Majors. Mez ia a high first rounder and the best offensive catcher in the Minors right now. Who knows what we get with those draft picks. It could be a Billy Hamilton or a Chris Gruler. Bird in hand is way more valuable than 2 in the bush. Mez and Wood give you 6 years of production and both will still be under 30 after those 6 years. This team can win the division without Lee this year and if you don't trade the wrong pieces for the next 3 or 4 years. I'd rather see a long tern run vs a one year wonder. Don't forget 1999 to 2000. Trading Tomko and Cameron was a part of the teams long term spiral. There were other factors, but keeping those two might have change this teams fortunes.

Also Texas had all those catchers yes. Yes none have lived up to the billing. But were not Texas. Mez isn't Ramirez, Teagarden or Saltamaccha, he's Devon. Let him be him. That be like saying he is going to be Mauer. You don't deal pieces like Mez, you collect them.

Sure you want to keep the right pieces but even with Wood as young as he is, at some point he reaches his peak value to this franchise.

Let's say the Reds sign Arroyo to a two year contract.
Then you have a rotation of Volquez, Arroyo, Cueto, Leake, and Chapman.

You're left with Maloney(past his peak value as a Red I believe) Bailey(same) and Wood all on the outside looking in next season. Sure it's nice to have that kind of insurance at AAA (for those you can still option) but is that insurance worth more than Cliff Lee would be this year.

Is Travis Wood's value as insurance that much higher than Matt Klinkers or Sam Lecure's?

Even if the Reds don't sign Arroyo, and Travis Wood is a major leaguer, you still have three-four arms at AAA who are reliable options. How many do you need?

[Joseph]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Perhaps the Reds just aren't interested?

No, Law is a noted Reds hater. Unless of course you mention it to him in chat in which case he just guffaws at the fools who follow the Reds.