Blue Jays Acquire Yunel Escobar and Jo-Jo Reyes

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by HotCorner

Well this means no Gonzalez to STL too.

Too bad for us.....

[15fan]

Escobar will give the Jays the same thing at SS that Edwin Encarnacion gave them (and the Reds) at 3B: Flashes of mixed in with a lot of

Escobar and Reyes officially join the long line of overly hyped Braves prospects that goes back to the likes Mike Kelley and Bruce Chen, and include more recent names like Wilson Betemit, Jeff Francouer, Joey Devine, Jung Keun Bong and Bubba Nelson.

If Escobar can figure out how to extract his head from his rectum, he's got a world of talent.

Hopefully there's a world-class proctologist in Toronto waiting for him.

[jojo]

Trading Escobar because of character issues kind of reminds me of another such trade-Carlos Guillen. I wonder if the Ms wish they had that one back...

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by jojo

Trading Escobar because of character issues kind of reminds me of another such trade-Carlos Guillen. I wonder if the Ms wish they had that one back...

Guys off the top of my head that were traded because of character issues: Elijah Dukes, Lastings Milledge, Jose Guillen, Milton Bradley, and Delmon Young.

Sure you can cherry pick times when a bad apple turns good, but more often than not character issue players are uber talented, but never realize their potential.

[lollipopcurve]

Trading Escobar because of character issues kind of reminds me of another such trade-Carlos Guillen. I wonder if the Ms wish they had that one back...

I wonder if the Cubs wish they could undo the Bradley-Silva trade....

[mdccclxix]

Can we just merge this thread with the "What can the Reds to to help the team now?" thread?

[15fan]

Originally Posted by jojo

Trading Escobar because of character issues kind of reminds me of another such trade-Carlos Guillen. I wonder if the Ms wish they had that one back...

The thing about the Braves, though, is that Bobby Cox is a lot like Red Foreman from That 70s Show: Bust your butt without being a pain in my butt, and everything will be fine.

If you can do that, history tells us that you are most likely going to be on a team that wins a lot of games and goes to the post-season. It also tells us that if/when you slump as a player, Cox will stick with you and work with you longer than a lot of other managers.

When Warren Buffett sells a stock he's usually ahead of the curve. Same thing with Cox/Schuerholz and young players. The young guys they deal away generally bottom out and fade away on someone else's watch. Outside of Elvis Andrus, very rarely have they dealt away a young guy to watch him blossom elsewhere.

(The Rangers got it right when they put the Braves over a barrell & demanded Andrus for Teixiera a couple of years ago. That's the only deal I remember in 15 years in the ATL where there was unified consensus that giving up Andrus was a steep price to pay.)

[TheNext44]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

Interesting. Escobar has been on the outs for the last 18 months and has really struggled at the plate this year (.046 ISO!). But he's been a bit BABIP unlucky, has walked more than he struck out, and is excellent defensively. He's just a great buy low candidate. Reyes is AAA filler with decent stuff for a lefty -- he just doesn't miss bats or throw strikes.

On the Braves side, Gonzalez probably isn't a huge upgrade over Escobar, but it does help the clubhouse. Collins meanwhile looks like the second coming of Billy Wagner on the stat sheet. I've not heard of him, but a 20 year old lefty reliever striking out 15.3 per 9 in AA? Yes please. And he wasn't even drafted -- I'd love to know that story.

Pastronicky was a 5th rd pick in 2008. Looks like a classic speedy SS type, with 57 SB in 2009. He showed a pretty good plate approach for a 19 year old in A Ball.

I'd say that unless Escobar reaches his potential, the Braves made out pretty darn well.

Collins is strange one. Don't know anything about him, but he strikes out a ton, and is listed at 5 foot 7 inches. That's an inch taller than Herrera. That's really baffling, especially since he's in AA, which means he's not a fluke. I would love to see him pitch or read more about him.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

Guys off the top of my head that were traded because of character issues: Elijah Dukes, Lastings Milledge, Jose Guillen, Milton Bradley, and Delmon Young.

Sure you can cherry pick times when a bad apple turns good, but more often than not character issue players are uber talented, but never realize their potential.

Kal Daniels comes to mind.

Sometimes you get rid of them just in time

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Kal Daniels comes to mind.

Sometimes you get rid of them just in time

What did Kal get booted from RZ?

Wasn't old enough back during Kal's days with the Reds to know.

[savafan]

Originally Posted by 15fan

Escobar and Reyes officially join the long line of overly hyped Braves prospects that goes back to the likes Mike Kelley and Bruce Chen, and include more recent names like Wilson Betemit, Jeff Francouer, Joey Devine, Jung Keun Bong and Bubba Nelson.

How could you forget Rob Bell?

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

Guys off the top of my head that were traded because of character issues: Elijah Dukes, Lastings Milledge, Jose Guillen, Milton Bradley, and Delmon Young.

Sure you can cherry pick times when a bad apple turns good, but more often than not character issue players are uber talented, but never realize their potential.

But what if the 'bad apple' tag isn't justified, or completely accurate? The issues with Escobar sound similar to the complaints the Indians and their fans had about our current second baseman.

[RedsManRick]

From Baseball America, via Fangraphs:

Pastornicky

An athletic infielder, Pastornicky doesn’t have flashy tools but gets the most out of what he has. He has good instincts at shortstop, along with plus range and an average arm. He’s an above-average runner and basestealer, which opposing catchers quickly figured out as he swiped 57 bases between two Class A stops in 2009. Pastornicky has a line-drive stroke and projects as .275 hitter in the big leagues. The only thing he lacks is power, as he has hit just two homers in 636 pro at-bats. But as a potential top-of-the-order hitter who provides sound defense, he may not need it.

Collins

He gets outs with a solid fastball that tops out at 93 mph and a true 12-to-6 curveball that he spins really well. His quirky delivery helps him as well. He has a high three-quarters arm slot and does an especially good job of staying on top of the ball and driving down despite his height. He has a high leg kick and stands as far to the third-base side of the rubber as possible.

[KronoRed]

Spectacular deal for the Jays.

[camisadelgolf]

I find it hard to believe that the Reds couldn't have topped that deal if they didn't want to. It sounds to me like the Reds just weren't all that interested.