Bengals 2010 pt. I

[paintmered]

Dude needs some undergarment support in the chestal region.

[LoganBuck]

I know this is a stretch but, does anyone remember the yearly training camp saga of Willie Anderson and his weight. The Bengals were always toying with the idea of moving him to left tackle, and he never reported to camp "in shape". Smith doesn't have that kind of cred, but lets see what he looks like in a few weeks.

I am not overly concerned.

[GIDP]

Originally Posted by LoganBuck

I know this is a stretch but, does anyone remember the yearly training camp saga of Willie Anderson and his weight. The Bengals were always toying with the idea of moving him to left tackle, and he never reported to camp "in shape". Smith doesn't have that kind of cred, but lets see what he looks like in a few weeks.

I am not overly concerned.

Yea I mean young fat guy is fat? Wouldnt be training camp if that wasnt the case it seems.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by davereds24

The NFL does not need the Bengals to be good, actually they would rather the division every year I'm sure.

Also, they haven't sold out early. Last year was the worst ticket sales year since 2003 I believe. They had to get bailed out 6 or 7 of the 8 home games to avoid blackout.

I do agree Marvin has had a big impact.

The Bengals weren't just bad, they were an embarrassment. The county had just built the Bengals a new stadium and they were getting sued but and I would also imagine the NFL was a co-defendant. When Marvin was hired things changed in this organization and I don't think it was just Marvin. I think it came from a little pushing from the NFL as well as Katie Blackburn.

Starting in 2005 (I believe) the Bengals have sold out the season in season tickets. IIRC they had a season ticket waiting list starting in the 2007 season. So yea for a couple of years in a row Mike had all ticket revenue in his pocket before training camp began. Its a pretty big incentive to get the stadium sold out.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

The Bengals weren't just bad, they were an embarrassment. The county had just built the Bengals a new stadium and they were getting sued but and I would also imagine the NFL was a co-defendant. When Marvin was hired things changed in this organization and I don't think it was just Marvin. I think it came from a little pushing from the NFL as well as Katie Blackburn.

Starting in 2005 (I believe) the Bengals have sold out the season in season tickets. IIRC they had a season ticket waiting list starting in the 2007 season. So yea for a couple of years in a row Mike had all ticket revenue in his pocket before training camp began. Its a pretty big incentive to get the stadium sold out.

What changed when Marvin came in was the fact that there was a coach with enough credibility to challenge Mike Brown. Before, when Mike Brown would dictate that he wanted the team to be run a certain way, what were Dave Shula, Bruce Coslet, or Dick LeBeau going to do? They owed their coaching lives to Brown. Even LeBeau who obviously had credibility as a defensive coordinator, was never considered to be a head coach anywhere else.

When Marvin came in, he was able to demand that he would have say in how the team was made up, how the camp was run, and how the team would act. Also, after 10 years of perpetual awfulness, I think Mike Brown saw a better solution in that he wouldn't have to answer questions after every loss or losing season. He was able to say "Okay, it's all on you."

The irony in my mind is that Brown had probably wanted to do that for 10 years, but Shula, Coslet, and LeBeau were not strong enough to actually pull it off.

[macro]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

Starting in 2005 (I believe) the Bengals have sold out the season in season tickets. IIRC they had a season ticket waiting list starting in the 2007 season. So yea for a couple of years in a row Mike had all ticket revenue in his pocket before training camp began. Its a pretty big incentive to get the stadium sold out.

Okay, I'm confused. So are there thousands of seats that will not be sold as season tickets, even if there is a waiting list of people who would want them? I just assumed that they'd sell the whole stadium out as season tickets if the demand was there.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by macro

Okay, I'm confused. So are there thousands of seats that will not be sold as season tickets, even if there is a waiting list of people who would want them? I just assumed that they'd sell the whole stadium out as season tickets if the demand was there.

You just confused me.

They would sell out the stadium with season tickets if they could. IIRC they did that in 2006, 2007, and 2008. After the disastrous 2008 season the Bengals lost a lot of their season ticket holders and had trouble selling out games last season.

As for the waiting list my wife put her name on it along with a $100 deposit. You got the chance to decline for 3 years before you lost your deposit. So in essence there were people on the waiting list while games went down to the deadline for a sell out.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

You just confused me.

They would sell out the stadium with season tickets if they could. IIRC they did that in 2006, 2007, and 2008. After the disastrous 2008 season the Bengals lost a lot of their season ticket holders and had trouble selling out games last season.

As for the waiting list my wife put her name on it along with a $100 deposit. You got the chance to decline for 3 years before you lost your deposit. So in essence there were people on the waiting list while games went down to the deadline for a sell out.

Are they still insisting on a massive seat license fee?

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Are they still insisting on a massive seat license fee?

Yep.

[reds1869]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

Yep.

That is the entire issue for me. Drop the PSL=I buy season tickets tomorrow. As it is, I'll only buy single game. The idea of paying for the right to buy season tickets for a professional team sickens me.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by macro

Okay, I'm confused. So are there thousands of seats that will not be sold as season tickets, even if there is a waiting list of people who would want them? I just assumed that they'd sell the whole stadium out as season tickets if the demand was there.

As I remember, the Colts did this when they first moved to Indy. I think the Hoosier Dome was around 55K overall for football. The Colts apparantly sold 48K or so season tickets and kept a waiting list. They then sold single game tickets and other ticket packages.

A team does this to keep demand for the product up. If you have 52K season tickets and no one on the waiting list, when you have a bad season or two, there's no fear to drop your season tickets. You can always pick them up when the team gets good again.

If you have a 4,000 person waiting list, the 48,000 people may be willing to forgive a bad season or two because they don't want to lose their tickets when the team gets good.

Plus it allows you to bring in additional fans at a lower committment level and is good PR. The Colts spun it as not wanting to forget about the fans who couldn't afford a full season ticket package.

[Hoosier Red]

A quick question that's probably stupid to anyone who truly knows football.

I read where Dave Rayner was something like 5 of 8 in practice today. What the hell is he doing over the course of 3 hours if he only had 8 attempts? I know they have to work on kickoffs and other things, and there are obviously drills they go through, but when I go to a game, I'd guess a kicker takes twice as many attempts just warming up before the game and at half time.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

A quick question that's probably stupid to anyone who truly knows football.

I read where Dave Rayner was something like 5 of 8 in practice today. What the hell is he doing over the course of 3 hours if he only had 8 attempts? I know they have to work on kickoffs and other things, and there are obviously drills they go through, but when I go to a game, I'd guess a kicker takes twice as many attempts just warming up before the game and at half time.

Its probably the maximum amount of time they get full field goal attempts. I am sure that he is off on a practice field working on kicks and kickoffs but its a heck of a lot easier to make a FG when no one is coming as opposed to 11 men coming.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by reds1869

That is the entire issue for me. Drop the PSL=I buy season tickets tomorrow. As it is, I'll only buy single game. The idea of paying for the right to buy season tickets for a professional team sickens me.

Are there teams that don't? I was under the impression that PSLs were standard in the NFL. I know the Browns do it. The Bengals didn't invent them. They merely followed the trend. In fact, I suspect teams that don't probably catch hell from other owners for not "maximizing revenue streams." I would never buy NFL season tickets because I'd prefer to buy them for a sport I could take my kids to.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

Its probably the maximum amount of time they get full field goal attempts. I am sure that he is off on a practice field working on kicks and kickoffs but its a heck of a lot easier to make a FG when no one is coming as opposed to 11 men coming.

That makes sense. Thanks for clearing it up for me.