University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

[WMR]

Biggest non-Reds topic on RZ. Keep it coming, haters and fans.

[Cedric]

Huggins is a better coach than Cal.

Took a dormant UC program and made them elite. Taking an average WVU program and making them elite.

And he schooled Cal in March again.

[Joseph]

Originally Posted by Cedric

Huggins is a better coach than Cal.

Took a dormant UC program and made them elite. Taking an average WVU program and making them elite.

And he schooled Cal in March again.

At the end of the day its still UC and WVU though.

[RiverRat13]

I would easily take Roy Williams over Calipari.

Three times in Roy's career he has had the most talented team in the nation ('98, '05, '09). He won titles in two of those years. Calipari has had the most talented team in the nation twice ('08 and '10) and failed to win the title either time. Cal will most likely get another chance in '12. If he doesn't get it done with how loaded that roster will be, then I think even Kentucky fans will start to question how good of a coach he really is.

[Reds4Life]

Originally Posted by RiverRat13

I would easily take Roy Williams over Calipari.

Three times in Roy's career he has had the most talented team in the nation. He won titles in two of those years ('98, '05, '09) . Calipari has had the most talented team in the nation twice ('08 and '10) and failed to win the title either time. Cal will most likely get another chance in '12. If he doesn't get it done with how loaded that roster will be, then I think even Kentucky fans will start to question how good of a coach he really is.

I agree on Williams. It's laughable when it's "questionable" if Williams is better when he's got 5 final fours and 2 national championships on his resume. Cal has none, of either.

[WVRed]

You're telling me you would take Calhoun or Self over Cal? That's nuts, IMO. I wouldn't take Cryin' Roy either but you can at least make a decent argument for Roy.

Calhoun: two titles to his credit. Also produced some pretty good quality NBA players.

Bill Self: One title (against Cal) and also an impressive recruiter. He is the complete package. In the national title against Cal, he clearly outcoached him. Self is also younger I believe.

Until Cal wins a title, he isn't going to be in the elite status. He is just like Pitino as a coach. He can recruit and can sell ice to eskimos, but when the game is on the line, sometimes he makes the wrong decisions.

[WVRed]

Originally Posted by RiverRat13

I would easily take Roy Williams over Calipari.

Three times in Roy's career he has had the most talented team in the nation ('98, '05, '09). He won titles in two of those years. Calipari has had the most talented team in the nation twice ('08 and '10) and failed to win the title either time. Cal will most likely get another chance in '12. If he doesn't get it done with how loaded that roster will be, then I think even Kentucky fans will start to question how good of a coach he really is.

In defense of the 2010 team, they were carried by three freshmen in the starting lineup, a sophomore, and a junior who might as well have been a sophomore given the injuries (Patterson). The talent got exposed in 2010 by a more seasoned WVU team.

2012 will likely be a different story. Of the players Kentucky has returning, Darius Miller and DeAndre Liggins will be seniors. Doron Lamb, Stacey Poole, and Jon Hood (who I think will surprise people by then) will be there and have some pretty good experience under their belts. The real wildcards could be who stays out of Kanter, Knight, and Terrence Jones. Add in Marquis Teague, Michael Gilchrist, and possibly Anthony Davis and a possible big, and it could be the deepest and most talented team since the 1996 squad.

If Cal hasn't won by 2012, I think there will be more questioning. It won't reach Tubby Smith's level though. Cal plays an uptempo style of play and brings in top recruits, which will give him a free pass with the fans.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by WVRed

Calhoun: two titles to his credit. Also produced some pretty good quality NBA players.

Bill Self: One title (against Cal) and also an impressive recruiter. He is the complete package. In the national title against Cal, he clearly outcoached him. Self is also younger I believe.

Until Cal wins a title, he isn't going to be in the elite status. He is just like Pitino as a coach. He can recruit and can sell ice to eskimos, but when the game is on the line, sometimes he makes the wrong decisions.

So you would rather have Self or Calhoun (at his age and with his health?!) over Cal? Saying Calhoun especially is just nuts.

Self outcoached Cal? I wonder how that end-game would turn out if you replayed it 100 times. I guess Self coached his boys to not miss a single shot in the final 2:12 of the game? Amazing coaching. haha.

During that stretch Kansas made 100% of their shots going 2 for 2 from two point range, 2 for 2 from three point range and 2 for 2 from the free throw line.

Why doesn't Self coach his boys to do that every game???

Sorry, I think you're off on those two guys. Self is a very good coach, but he's not on Cal's level when it comes to recruiting and saying that he out-coached Cal in the NC game is just wrong, IMO. That Memphis team's inability to hit a free throw finally came back and bit them in the ass. That's why they lost, that, and because Kansas didn't miss a single shot for the final 2:12 of the game.

1. Izzo
2. K

That's where the list ends for me.

I can see the Roy Williams argument and don't have an issue if someone wants to include him on their list above Cal... however, what was Roy's reputation before he got to UNC where he could have 12 All-Americans on every team?

[guttle11]

That's an extremely simplistic look at the Kansas/Memphis game. There was also, you know, overtime. Bill Self is a much better basketball coach than most people would ever realize, or admit. Now that Kansas' conference situation is stable for the foreseeable future, he's going to be there for many years, and win more than one more title.

Izzo is the best coach in the country for sure. Coach K is 2nd, and I would place Self 3rd, Williams 4th, Boeheim 5th (even if he is a whiner), and Calipari 6th. Matta 7th, Howland 8th, Huggins 9th and Rick Barnes 10th.

[Razor Shines]

Originally Posted by WMR

So you would rather have Self or Calhoun (at his age and with his health?!) over Cal? Saying Calhoun especially is just nuts.

Self outcoached Cal? I wonder how that end-game would turn out if you replayed it 100 times. I guess Self coached his boys to not miss a single shot in the final 2:12 of the game? Amazing coaching. haha. Why doesn't Self coach his boys to do that every game???

Sorry, I think you're off on those two guys. Self is a very good coach, but he's not on Cal's level when it comes to recruiting and saying that he out-coached Cal in the NC game is just wrong, IMO. That Memphis team's inability to hit a free throw finally came back and bit them in the ass. That's why they lost, that, and because Kansas didn't miss a single shot for the final 2:12 of the game.

1. Izzo
2. K
3. Mike Davis

That's where the list ends for me.

I can see the Roy Williams argument and don't have an issue if someone wants to include him on their list above Cal... however, what was Roy's reputation before he got to UNC where he could have 12 All-Americans on every team?

Uh, you forgot one.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by Razor Shines

Uh, you forgot one.

HOW did I forget the greatest coach in Hoosier history?!



It's absolutely amazing how close he got to winning a championship...

If he had won that game I wonder if he would still be coaching at IU today.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by guttle11

That's an extremely simplistic look at the Kansas/Memphis game. There was also, you know, overtime. Bill Self is a much better basketball coach than most people would ever realize, or admit. Now that Kansas' conference situation is stable for the foreseeable future, he's going to be there for many years, and win more than one more title.

Izzo is the best coach in the country for sure. Coach K is 2nd, and I would place Self 3rd, Williams 4th, Boeheim 5th (even if he is a whiner), and Calipari 6th. Matta 7th, Howland 8th, Huggins 9th and Rick Barnes 10th.

Barnes over Billy D?

I know you Buckeyes hate everything Gator, but c'mon now...

I'm no big Billy D fan but he's got 2 rings on his fingers and the only things Rick Barnes is known for is taking his name out of the running for jobs he hasn't been offered and coaching underperforming basketball teams.

[guttle11]

I'm not a huge proponent of titles defining a coach or player, especially in a crap shoot like March Madness, but Donovan is a definite omission. It's impossible to really feel satisfied with a list like that. Too many names to remember. He'd be in the top 10 somewhere, probably just above Howland.

Barnes has been to 18 NCAA tourneys with 3 schools, with 3 sweet sixteens, 2 elite 8s and a final four. That's pretty impressive. No one coaches that long without having some disappointing years. More often than not he gets the most out of what he has, and seeing how his recruiting is better than ever, I think the sky is the limit for Texas in the next decade. On top of that I love his coaching style. Just a personal favorite. Same with Bo Ryan, who maybe has the highest basketball IQ of any coach in America, pro or college. If he could ever get a couple top recruits to buy into his system for 2-3 years, he'd probably win a title.

[WMR]

I really like Bo Ryan. I hate seeing his teams on my side of the bracket in MM, but I really like what he is all about as a coach. Definitely one of the top defensive minds in college bball.

I think it would be interesting if he opened up his team's offensive game a little bit more... too much grind it out for my taste.

[WVRed]

Originally Posted by WMR

So you would rather have Self or Calhoun (at his age and with his health?!) over Cal? Saying Calhoun especially is just nuts.

Self outcoached Cal? I wonder how that end-game would turn out if you replayed it 100 times. I guess Self coached his boys to not miss a single shot in the final 2:12 of the game? Amazing coaching. haha. Why doesn't Self coach his boys to do that every game???

Sorry, I think you're off on those two guys. Self is a very good coach, but he's not on Cal's level when it comes to recruiting and saying that he out-coached Cal in the NC game is just wrong, IMO. That Memphis team's inability to hit a free throw finally came back and bit them in the ass. That's why they lost, that, and because Kansas didn't miss a single shot for the final 2:12 of the game.

1. Izzo
2. K

That's where the list ends for me.

I can see the Roy Williams argument and don't have an issue if someone wants to include him on their list above Cal... however, what was Roy's reputation before he got to UNC where he could have 12 All-Americans on every team?

I'm not saying I would rather have Calhoun or Self over Cal, just that they are better all-around coaches. Completely left out Jim Boeheim as well. He has a title and is one of the best defensive minds in basketball.

That Memphis team's inability to hit a free throw finally came back and bit them in the ass.

You can replace that with Kentucky in some instances as well. Cal's teams have NEVER been good free throw shooting teams.