OSU-UM Football Rivalry

[Roy Tucker]

But the problem is, if they are in different divisions, they just won't play that often. From the article in the base note

Take one division template, which features Ohio State, Penn State and Wisconsin on one side and Michigan, Nebraska and Iowa on the other. If the Big Ten had added Nebraska along with the Nittany Lions in 1993 and split into divisions then, the Buckeyes and Wolverines would have met in the title game either three or four times in the last 17 years.

That means 13-14 times out of the last 17 years, they *don't* play. I just can't see that happening.

[dabvu2498]

Why couldn't the Big 10 do the same scheduling that the SEC does? 5 division games, 1 "traditional" rival from the other division (Bama-Tennessee, Florida-LSU, Auburn-UGa) and 2 rotating interdivision games? No, it's not always totally equitable, but it gives the fans what they want. And it hasn't seemed to detract from the SEC Championship games when it's been a rematch.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by Roy Tucker

But the problem is, if they are in different divisions, they just won't play that often. From the article in the base note.

Not necessarily. It can be a protected rivalry and they can play every year whether they make the championship game or not.

[Roy Tucker]

Originally Posted by Chip R

Not necessarily. It can be a protected rivalry and they can play every year whether they make the championship game or not.

yabbut then you run into the issue of playing 2 weeks straight with different scenarios playing out of that.

maybe both teams have a slot already won in the BT title game so what does the regular season game mean?

or one team pulls off a titanic upset in game #1 only to have to beat them again in game #2 so what did it matter?

or maybe both teams are ranked highly and both games are good.

it just seems with any setup, the muddy waters run deep.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by Roy Tucker

yabbut then you run into the issue of playing 2 weeks straight with different scenarios playing out of that.

maybe both teams have a slot already won in the BT title game so what does the regular season game mean?

or one team pulls off a titanic upset in game #1 only to have to beat them again in game #2 so what did it matter?

or maybe both teams are ranked highly and both games are good.

it just seems with any setup, the muddy waters run deep.

You can't have it both ways. Either you put them in in the same division and possibly not have the two best teams meet in the championship game or you put them in different divisions and run the risk of either having them play twice or not at all.

Let's just call a spade a spade. It's a money grab and the championship game is basically a big money maker. There's no law that says they have to seperate the conference into divisions but they have to keep up with the Joneses or be relegated to irrelevancy.

[Roy Tucker]

Originally Posted by Chip R

You can't have it both ways. Either you put them in in the same division and possibly not have the two best teams meet in the championship game or you put them in different divisions and run the risk of either having them play twice or not at all.

Let's just call a spade a spade. It's a money grab and the championship game is basically a big money maker. There's no law that says they have to seperate the conference into divisions but they have to keep up with the Joneses or be relegated to irrelevancy.

Yeah, I can agree with this. $$$ trumps all.

[gonelong]

Put tOSU and Mich in 2 different divisions, and then have them meet in the first Big10 game of the season. Each team should have a rivalry game, regardless of division affiliation. An early tOSU/Mich game kicks off the season and IMO would be well received.

More often than not both teams will be highly ranked early, so a W moves you up the polls, and a loss doesn't kill the season for the other team. It keeps both teams relevant in the BCS for the majority of the season. If a rematch in the title game is playing out during the season, the building tension will be thick.

If they meet in the Big10+2 Championship game then you have your traditional winner-takes-all tOSU/Mich matchup at then end of the season, and not simply a repeat of last weeks game. If the loser of the first match wins the final and only has 1 loss, they are still a viable BCS NC candidate.

If the first game was a lopsided game, the national interest will still be there since the first game is so far in the rear-view mirror. If the first game was a close game, then the interest will be very high.

GL

[BuckeyeRed27]

I would like to see OSU, Michigan, Wisky in one division and PSU, Nebraska and Iowa in the other.

I would also like to see OSU vs Michigan and PSU vs. Nebraska both be regular season finales. Many years those would be division deciding games and would set up a playoff of sorts.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Chip R

Hence the problem.



If - like a few years ago - both are top rated teams, the loser gets screwed. Maybe a last second FG turns the tide or someone sprained an ankle. The losing team can say that if that player was healthy they would have won.

We have to remember that there is no law that says UM and OSU are always going to be the best two teams in the Big T(welv)en. It doesn't diminish the rivalry any when either or both teams have fallen on tough times. You think Florida kids (and fans) don't have the same intensity for the Georgia game if Georgia isn't a top 25 team? The OSU-UM rivalry will survive whether they are in different divisions or not.

You're making my point. Florida and Georgia are in the same division yet the rivalry goes on

[Cedric]

Originally Posted by gonelong

Put tOSU and Mich in 2 different divisions, and then have them meet in the first Big10 game of the season. Each team should have a rivalry game, regardless of division affiliation. An early tOSU/Mich game kicks off the season and IMO would be well received.

More often than not both teams will be highly ranked early, so a W moves you up the polls, and a loss doesn't kill the season for the other team. It keeps both teams relevant in the BCS for the majority of the season. If a rematch in the title game is playing out during the season, the building tension will be thick.

If they meet in the Big10+2 Championship game then you have your traditional winner-takes-all tOSU/Mich matchup at then end of the season, and not simply a repeat of last weeks game. If the loser of the first match wins the final and only has 1 loss, they are still a viable BCS NC candidate.

If the first game was a lopsided game, the national interest will still be there since the first game is so far in the rear-view mirror. If the first game was a close game, then the interest will be very high.

GL

You are sorely mistaken if you think a Michigan vs Ohio State game would work in September or early October. People would go nuts if it was the first Big Ten game.

[Roy Tucker]

Originally Posted by Cedric

You are sorely mistaken if you think a Michigan vs Ohio State game would work in September or early October. People would go nuts if it was the first Big Ten game.

Yeah, its been the last game of the season since 1935 (except for one year). I just don't think you mess with something like that.

Some things are tradition and a recognizable signature for a league and OSU-UM the last game of the season is one of those capstone events. You blow that up and you might as well get rid of the Buckeye logo or change the Michigan helmet or something goofy like that. It is possible for marketing genuises to ruin things. Look at the CART-IRL split or New Coke.

[gonelong]

Originally Posted by Cedric

You are sorely mistaken if you think a Michigan vs Ohio State game would work in September or early October. People would go nuts if it was the first Big Ten game.

Assuming the Big10+2 will have them play each year. That means either player early, mid, or late.

You don't like early. That leaves mid or late.

Frankly, I just can't get behind a middle of the season tOSU/Mich game. A loss by either team before the game and the shine that an earlier game would have had is lost. A mid-season loss to one of your powers drops them in the rankings moreso than an early season loss, affecting the whole league. Can't think of a single benefit to a mid-season game.

Late is troublesome as the game will be devalued if they rematch a week or two later. It could also make a mockery of the game if either team can lose and then still rematch in the Big10 championship game. Who is going to show their hand in the first game if a rematch is likely?

Early has a lot going for it. The bonus is the possibility of the two teams meeting again later in the season. Two meaningful tOSU/Mich games in a season would be fantastic. That 2nd game will be as big (or bigger) than it is now, and would happen a decent number of years. Obviously in a goodly number of years, they won't rematch.

You say it's not going to work.

How is it not going to work? Are tOSU fans suddenly not going to the Shoe? Are Mich fans suddenly not going to the Big House? Is ESPN not pulling GameDay at tOSU/Mich? Is the nation not watching a tOSU/Mich game at 8:00 PM on Saturday in Sept or Oct?

Mich plays ND right before the Big10 schedule and that game is not exactly ignored. Whenever two powerhouses meet early, the game is hyped beyond belief. tOSU/Mich early will work just like tOSU/USC early worked. (obvious non-conf/conf difference)

GL

[gonelong]

Originally Posted by Roy Tucker

Yeah, its been the last game of the season since 1935 (except for one year). I just don't think you mess with something like that.

Some things are tradition and a recognizable signature for a league and OSU-UM the last game of the season is one of those capstone events. You blow that up and you might as well get rid of the Buckeye logo or change the Michigan helmet or something goofy like that. It is possible for marketing genuises to ruin things. Look at the CART-IRL split or New Coke.

I'd rather not mess with it either. I'm quite positive the Big10 didn't want to mess with their signature event either. Too late. The landscape has dictated they change or risk losing relevancy on the national stage.

The Big10 will have a conf championship game, and divisions. The tOSU/Mich game will no longer be the last on the Big10 schedule, the conf game will. The tOSU/Mich game being the last in the regular season will no longer carry the oomph it did before. So they have already messed with it.

Nostalgia and tradition have already lost. The only questions left is what now?

GL

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

You're making my point. Florida and Georgia are in the same division yet the rivalry goes on

That's not necessarily the point. The point is that a rivalry can endure despite one team or another not being strong for a while. But I'll give you another example: Florida State and Miami. Different divisions in the same conference but the rivalry is always intense.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Chip R

That's not necessarily the point. The point is that a rivalry can endure despite one team or another not being strong for a while. But I'll give you another example: Florida State and Miami. Different divisions in the same conference but the rivalry is always intense.

That's why I was puzzled you used that as your example. There's no one doubting that the rivalry can endure a team not being strong for awhile. That's been the case since RR got to Mi. The issue is whether to put them in the same division or not.

The Miami FSU example is a poor one because neither team has done well since the ACC has gone to a Championship game. FSU has played in the game once while Miami never has.

In the Big Ten we're projecting that OSU and MI will compete for the championship game often. If we're thinking that they won't then I agree, it doesn't really matter which division you put them in. I'm trying to avoid a scenario where they'll play twice in a year. That would diminish the game.