September Scoreboard Watching

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

You can't go jerking out starting pitchers at the first sign of trouble in the 6th inning when he's previously given up one single run and 60-some pitches. I don't care if it's a pennant race or not... that's far too reactionary.

It's a pennant race, but it's not do-or-die. They're up 7 games with 25 to play... that's pretty significant. No use in acting like it's game 7 of the World Series because he'd given up a solo double with 2 outs.

I just disagree. I would have managed this game like the seventh game of the World Series.

Reds could have taken a nine game lead.

What are we saving the relievers for? Tomorrow in Colorado? This was a "nail in the coffin" type game and the Reds could have won it.

Not the game to work on Homer's durability or confidence IMO. This was the game to go all out to win, and IMO they didn't.

[OnBaseMachine]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

OBM, Jay is a .300 hitter. He's a major league hitter hitting .300... let's not act like it was pitcher that was 5-for-his-10-year-career up there that doubled.

Jay is a good young hitter with good bat control, a good eye and hits the ball pretty well. He's not a power hitter, but there are far worse things than surrendering a hit to him.

Jon Jay has a career .799 OPS in the minors, and has been extremely lucky at the MLB level. There's nothing about his game that impresses me. He looks like nothing more than a career backup to me.

The real killer was the bad pitch to Holliday. Just a bad, bad pitch by Bailey. He was pitching a great game up until that point.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

Let's remember, there's no certainty that the bullpen coming in would've shut the Cards down either. Dusty brought in Ondrusek after Bailey and he promptly allowed back to back singles after the leadoff guy grounded out. Even IF Dusty went to the pen for Pujols & Holliday, I'm pretty sure it still would've been Ondrusek. I'll take Homer over Logan especially considering how he was pitching. I'm pretty certain that it WOULDN'T have been Masset if Dusty did go to the pen there.

Tough loss. But we're still up big...not the end of the world. (still ticked over that IBB though)

I wouldn't have used Ondrusek. I would have used Masset.

Sometimes you have to vary the pattern to win the game.

So now he has a rested bullpen for a lopsided pitching matchup in Colorado.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by Kc61

I just disagree. I would have managed this game like the seventh game of the World Series.

Reds could have taken a nine game lead.

What are we saving the relievers for? Tomorrow in Colorado? This was a "nail in the coffin" type game and the Reds could have won it.

Not the game to work on Homer's durability or confidence IMO. This was the game to go all out to win, and IMO they didn't.

I think that the Reds have treated this series like any other is precisely why they're going to go on to win the division. The fans here absolutely blew a gasket when they were swept by St. Louis, yet, the truth was... it was not the end of the world because the Reds were beating teams they were supposed to beat and the Cardinals were not.

Same logic here. Yanking a pitcher after a double, despite a tremendously efficient game to that point is just not practical. It's not something you'd see any single Major League manager do at this point in the season. None. It's not even a consideration. Heck, you're railing on them for not making a pitching change, yet at that juncture, there's not even a manager in the league that would have yet had a guy warming up. Homer entered the inning with 47 pitches through 5 innings, a few hits allowed and one run. And you expect to not only have a pitcher already warming up but yank him after a 2-out double? That seems pretty far out.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

Jon Jay has a career .799 OPS in the minors, and has been extremely lucky at the MLB level. There's nothing about his game that impresses me. He looks like nothing more than a career backup to me.

The real killer was the bad pitch to Holliday. Just a bad, bad pitch by Bailey. He was pitching a great game up until that point.

An 800 OPS hitter isn't great but it's nothing to sneeze at. The kid can hit. Has he been lucky? Sure... but lucky in the way that he wasn't going to keep hitting .380 the rest of the year.

Jay has a nice swing. I urge you to set aside the fact he was lucky and look at him at face value... he's a nice young hitter with a level stroke. His problem is that he doesn't project for a ton of power, which is why he didn't have a higher OPS in the minors. But the kid can swing the bat. He's not an easy out.

[The Operator]

What the heck is happening out in San Diego?

9 straight losses and down 1-0 to Colorado today. Wow.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

Same logic here. Yanking a pitcher after a double, despite a tremendously efficient game to that point is just not practical. It's not something you'd see any single Major League manager do at this point in the season. None. It's not even a consideration. Heck, you're railing on them for not making a pitching change, yet at that juncture, there's not even a manager in the league that would have yet had a guy warming up. Homer entered the inning with 47 pitches through 5 innings, a few hits allowed and one run. And you expect to not only have a pitcher already warming up but yank him after a 2-out double? That seems pretty far out.

Except you're ignoring all the circumstances.

Facing Carpenter.
Tight pitching duel.
Young Reds pitcher who sometimes fades in middle innings.
Rested bullpen, now very deep since Chapman's arrival.
Nail in the coffin type game.
Cards big hitters coming up for third time against Bailey.
Masset lights out reliever has faced these guys many times.

I would have had Masset warmed and ready. I said so at the time in the game thread. And I don't care about his pitch count in that spot, given all these other circumstances.

[Big Klu]

Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger

One team I do not understand how they keep winning...is the Yankees. Burnett is garbage. They have someone named Nova starting...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_aIcdsJUgqm...eposter008.jpg

[VR]

So, who pitches to Pujols and Holliday in the 8th with a one run lead?

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by Kc61

Except you're ignoring all the circumstances.

Facing Carpenter.
Tight pitching duel.
Young Reds pitcher who sometimes fades in middle innings.
Rested bullpen, now very deep since Chapman's arrival.
Nail in the coffin type game.
Cards big hitters coming up for third time against Bailey.
Masset lights out reliever has faced these guys many times.

I would have had Masset warmed and ready. I said so at the time in the game thread. And I don't care about his pitch count in that spot, given all these other circumstances.

Even ignoring pitch counts, Bailey showed absolutely no signs of letting up. So he gave up one double... that's really no reason to yank a guy. He was not getting hit much at all to that point. And frankly I don't see one hit as a sign that he's suddenly going to start. Pitch counts do matter when considering whether or not he's tiring. But there was no evidence of that. Frankly, I still believe nothing that inning was an indication Bailey was losing it... he battled Holliday for 7 pitches and unfortunately an All-Star hitter took care of a mistake high in the zone. It happens. Sometimes you just have to credit the other guy.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by VR

So, who pitches to Pujols and Holliday in the 8th with a one run lead?

If Holliday makes out to end the sixth, maybe the middle of the order doesn't hit again.

Or, maybe they hit in the ninth. Answer: Coco.

Or, maybe they hit with no men on in the eighth. Answer: Ondrusek.

Or, if they do come up in a tough spot again, Chapman.

This way, as it went down, Reds got to give some work to Bray and Smith in a big game against the Cards. Great.

[OnBaseMachine]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

Jay has a nice swing. I urge you to set aside the fact he was lucky and look at him at face value... he's a nice young hitter with a level stroke. His problem is that he doesn't project for a ton of power, which is why he didn't have a higher OPS in the minors. But the kid can swing the bat. He's not an easy out.

Meh, I've watched Jay plenty this season and nothing impresses me about his game. I guess I'm just frustrated from seeing the Reds give up so many hits to less than stellar hitters this week. Randy Wolf, Yovani Gallardo, Chris Narveson, Jaime Garcia, Jon Jay, Skip Schumaker...

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

Even ignoring pitch counts, Bailey showed absolutely no signs of letting up. So he gave up one double... that's really no reason to yank a guy. He was not getting hit much at all to that point. And frankly I don't see one hit as a sign that he's suddenly going to start. Pitch counts do matter when considering whether or not he's tiring. But there was no evidence of that. Frankly, I still believe nothing that inning was an indication Bailey was losing it... he battled Holliday for 7 pitches and unfortunately an All-Star hitter took care of a mistake high in the zone. It happens. Sometimes you just have to credit the other guy.

I've followed Homer's career, as I'm sure you have. He just seems to have trouble in the middle innings fairly often. It even happened in the minors.

Again, if Brendan Ryan was coming up, I'd agree with you. But even if he seemed fine, he was about to face two feared and dangerous hitters. I wouldn't have waited for some sign of distress. Based on the opposition and Homer's track record, I'd have gone to Masset.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by The Operator

What the heck is happening out in San Diego?

9 straight losses and down 1-0 to Colorado today. Wow.

I think its called a cruel regression all at one time. I've felt the Padres have been playing over their head all season long.

[VR]

Originally Posted by Kc61

If Holliday makes out to end the sixth, maybe the middle of the order doesn't hit again.

Or, maybe they hit in the ninth. Answer: Coco.

Or, maybe they hit with no men on in the eighth. Answer: Ondrusek.

Or, if they do come up in a tough spot again, Chapman.

This way, as it went down, Reds got to give some work to Bray and Smith in a big game against the Cards. Great.

And kept the others fresh for a 4 game road series...still up 7 games.

I understand managing any game like it's the 7th game of the world series, and I respect your opinion on it.