University of Kentucky Men's Basketball - 6th edition

[WMR]

Originally Posted by Boston Red

I'm sure they wouldn't be thrilled. But I also doubt this is some sort of conspiracy against Kanter.

If these guys say they think he got paid, the simplest (and most likely) explanation for those comments is that they think he got paid. (Obviously not as simple for the actual team involved as they really do have a huge and immediate motive to lie.)

Like MM typed, I don't believe it's a conspiracy against Kanter. It's about protecting your business model, plain and simple.

Does it surprise me that an 'international basketball person' wants him labeled as a professional? Hell no.

[Boston Red]

Taking it the next logical step, though, MM's theory makes no sense. OK, so Kanter is ruled ineligible. The Turkish squad wins. How does that help the rest of the Euro clubs with the next guy? This is a high profile case already, so the next guy knows he has to be more careful in his dealings with the clubs. How does keeping Kanter out of college basketball help the Euro clubs with that guy?

Makes no sense, and it especially makes no sense for them to lie about Kanter.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by Boston Red

Taking it the next logical step, though, MM's theory makes no sense. OK, so Kanter is ruled ineligible. The Turkish squad wins. How does that help the rest of the Euro clubs with the next guy? This is a high profile case already, so the next guy knows he has to be more careful in his dealings with the clubs. How does keeping Kanter out of college basketball help the Euro clubs with that guy?

Makes no sense, and it especially makes no sense for them to lie about Kanter.

It lessens the chances of future stud European players trying to leave their 'parent clubs' and come to college in the states unless they totally sever such relationships and never play for European club teams in the first place (which is pretty much impossible because there is no other way for European players to develop their game IN EUROPE without moving to America).

[Scrap Irony]

Originally Posted by WMR

Enes Kanter is 18, right?

Still waiting for your verification on that.

As to your latest post, as I posted earlier, I am not trying nor am I interested in trying to convince you skeptics of anything. I bring stuff to this thread that I think a UK FAN might be interested in reading. Seriously, give it a rest with the attempted 'gotcha' stuff, please. I really hope you're capable of discerning the differences between an opinion piece in a blog type setting versus a piece of supposed 'serious journalism.' Maybe not? Seems pretty obvious to me. One is about opinions, the other is supposed to be about FACTS. Of course, facts and quotes seem to be rather malleable when they're in Pete Thamel's hands.

BOTH of Pete Thamel's articles concerning UK have had a source later claim that they were misquoted. Focus on that if you can.

No "gotcha" attempt at all. Just trying to figure out your logic. (Still struggling with that one. )

As to your assertion that claims of misquotes are rare, I can assure they're not. That's one reason reporters record almost everything.

Having said that, it seems strange that Thamel hasn't come out with his recording if it's actually a quote about Kanter. In the past, I know of a couple politician that claimed they were misquoted and threatened suit, but were then (the next day, in fact) given copies of their recorded conversations as "proof". (The corresponding story also severely damaged both party's reputations. Perhaps he's not up to date on Wildcat blogs?

[Scrap Irony]

Originally Posted by Boston Red

Hatchet job or not by Thamel, do people generally believe Kanter got paid by his Turkish squad or not?

And who is Adrian Wojnarowski's source?

http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA

"Some top INTL bball officials at USA practice validated on @PeteThamelNYT Kanter probe: "We've all known that kid's already a pro," one said"

Depends on what you mean by paid, IMO. I'm sure he got his expenses paid (as is allowed). I think it's likely some padding went on so that he got paid well for expenses.

I don't think he'll be eligible this year. Or perhaps the NCAA will claim he's eligible, then recant later on, after Kanter has led Kentucky to the Final Four.

Wouldn't that be interesting...

I don't think he "made enough" to be considered a pro. It's similar, IMO, to a private school tuition at Oak Hill or another private basketball factory school. Lots of perks, lots of swag, very little cash, and a whole lot of icky gray area about professional athletics.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

No "gotcha" attempt at all. Just trying to figure out your logic. (Still struggling with that one. )

As to your assertion that claims of misquotes are rare, I can assure they're not. That's one reason reporters record almost everything.

Having said that, it seems strange that Thamel hasn't come out with his recording if it's actually a quote about Kanter. In the past, I know of a couple politician that claimed they were misquoted and threatened suit, but were then (the next day, in fact) given copies of their recorded conversations as "proof". (The corresponding story also severely damaged both party's reputations. Perhaps he's not up to date on Wildcat blogs?

WMR, you've had pretty much everyone who has ever been involved in professional journalism tell you that you don't know what you're talking about. Sources claim to be misquoted all the time. If you don't believe that the NY Times has higher professional standards than KSR, I'm sorry that's just your bias showing through.

You've made the assertion that two sources claiming to be misquoted should shed doubt on the stories. While that would be true if we knew for a fact that those sources were 100% accurate in their recollection of the conversations and weren't particularly displeased with how the quotes looked once they were down in print. As it is, I'm going to trust the word of the guy who has a tape recording and/or was taking notes on the conversation as it was happening. I'm guessing he probably remembers it better.

[WMR]

Our intern spoke to the New York Times Sport Editor about the allegation by Duquesne Assistant Rodney Crawford that Pete Thamel misused his quotes about another player and claimed that they were about Enes Kanter. The Times Sports Editor told us, “we stand by our reporting.” He also said that while he couldnt be certain, he did not believe that Thamel taped the interview with Crawford.

So there you go, the Times gave us the answer we asked for. It is up to everyone individually as to what you make of it.

What a surprise, hack Thamel didn't record the conversation. I'm sure he took notes, though! LOL that's plenty to convince some of our more astute journalism fans.

Looks like we've got some better journalists in this thread than employed by the NYT!!

[WMR]

And Scrap: HOW OLD IS ENES KANTER??????

Please use your investigative abilities to confirm he is indeed 18 years old because I still haven't seen you admit that you were wrong when you kept doggedly insisting he was 20.

[Scrap Irony]

Didn't say he was 20, WMR. Said he was close to 20.

Which 18 is.

He's an adult. He's no child. He deserves to be reported on, just as anyone else of age.

But I guess I thought you could figure that out. Guess I was wrong.

Of course, I'm sure someone that's accused someone else of attempting "gotcha" moments on this thread wouldn't stoop so low as to try a "gotcha" moment of their own, but, hey, lookie, lookie:

There you are.

What. A. Surprise.

[Boston Red]

Originally Posted by WMR

It lessens the chances of future stud European players trying to leave their 'parent clubs' and come to college in the states unless they totally sever such relationships and never play for European club teams in the first place (which is pretty much impossible because there is no other way for European players to develop their game IN EUROPE without moving to America).

Don't see that. It lessens the chance Kanter plays in the states, but all it does for everyone else is let them know they need to be more careful in their dealings with the club if they want to come to the US and play college ball.

In any event, all I hope is the NCAA gets it right. If he's been paid and is a pro, I hope he's ineligible. If the Turkish team is just trying to screw him, I hope the NCAA figures that out and he gets to play. Pretty hard to tell one way or the other at this point.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

Didn't say he was 20, WMR. Said he was close to 20.

Which 18 is.

He's an adult. He's no child. He deserves to be reported on, just as anyone else of age.

But I guess I thought you could figure that out. Guess I was wrong.

Of course, I'm sure someone that's accused someone else of attempting "gotcha" moments on this thread wouldn't stoop so low as to try a "gotcha" moment of their own, but, hey, lookie, lookie:

There you are.

What. A. Surprise.

Well you kept ignoring my question and refusing to admit he's not "ALMOST 20" he JUST TURNED 18.

As important as the truth is to you, I figured you would want the record straight.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by Boston Red

In any event, all I hope is the NCAA gets it right. If he's been paid and is a pro, I hope he's ineligible. If the Turkish team is just trying to screw him, I hope the NCAA figures that out and he gets to play.

1000% agreed.

[Scrap Irony]

Originally Posted by WMR

Well you kept ignoring my question and refusing to admit he's not "ALMOST 20" he JUST TURNED 18.

As important as the truth is to you, I figured you would want the record straight.

Isn't 18 almost 20?

Truth is always important, WMR. Provided one can see it. Sometimes, we're just too blinded by obsession and fanatic loyalty to see it.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

Isn't 18 almost 20?

Truth is always important, WMR. Provided one can see it. Sometimes, we're just too blinded by obsession and fanatic loyalty to see it.

He's closer to being 17 than he is 19. Or 20.

I guess that last part is aimed at me... maybe you're right, but I don't think so. I've always maintained that if ANYONE had some legitimate dirty dealings going on with UK, Cal, a Kentucky recruit, ANYTHING, I would WANT it brought to light.

Both of you told me only a few posts ago about how any reporter worth his salt records his interviews... now tell me, what does it say when Thamel's own editor DOESN'T KNOW if he recorded his interview or not? (Which sounds like total ass-covering to me.) If a journalist records one, wouldn't he record them all? Isn't that shoddy journalism? He's already had one 'source' renege on a quote and he doesn't record every damn word that he attributes to someone else in print? It stinks to high heaven.

You can claim bias all you want, but that knife cuts two ways.

[Scrap Irony]

If he didn't record the interview, you can bet your bippy his editor is absolutely reading him the riot act. You wouldn't see that in print because editors keep that stuff behind closed doors.

Should he have recorded his interview? Truthfully, in the two years I spent writing, I never interviewed anyone without having a recorder right by me. Never once did I "forget" to turn it on. That cost me three or four interviews and definitely made people wary, but I was more concerned with getting things right (I tended, without the recorder, to make quotes "fit" grammatically. That made me uneasy.)

I knew some guys (generally older or less inclined to chase after stories) that insisted a recorder cramped their style.

Doesn't mean I was right or wrong. (Also doesn't mean Thamel is right or wrong.)

It does open up possibilities for those inclined to believe in conspiracy theories.