Drew Stubbs

[VR]

Originally Posted by IslandRed

When it comes right down to it, Stubbs still has a swing that's susceptible to slumps and streaks. But this year, it seems like he's worked his way out of the slumps quicker, and there's more power when he's not slumping. Going forward, he may still have those two-week stretches where he can't hit water falling out of a boat, but I think we'll be happy with the season-long production.

You've hit on a great point IR.

Stubbs swing has a bit of a loop to it....which slows it down just a bit in getting to the zone. It's a bit like he's 'loading up' like a softball player. He's got SUCH bat speed and power once he's in the zone, hopefully it can get rectified....and enable him to make better contact without sacrificing power.

The untapped elephant in the living room w/ him is the bunt/infield hits. If he can become a bit more proficient in that area....he will be one of the most dangerous players in the league.

[IslandRed]

Originally Posted by VR

The untapped elephant in the living room w/ him is the bunt/infield hits. If he can become a bit more proficient in that area....he will be one of the most dangerous players in the league.

Yeah, I hadn't thought of that, but you're right. He might end up Public Enemy #1 among National League third basemen -- the speed to easily beat out bunt singles if they don't play in, the power to leave exit wounds if they do.

[OnBaseMachine]

Drew Stubbs = Mike Cameron?

Stubbs has been a 3 win player this season despite his defense being vastly underrated by UZR. UZR has him as basically a league average defender, he's been much, much better than that, IMO. Sure, he had a couple blunders early in the season but overall, he's played at a Gold Glove level. There are maybe one or two center fielders in all of baseball with comparable range to Stubbs.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by VR

You've hit on a great point IR.

Stubbs swing has a bit of a loop to it....which slows it down just a bit in getting to the zone. It's a bit like he's 'loading up' like a softball player. He's got SUCH bat speed and power once he's in the zone, hopefully it can get rectified....and enable him to make better contact without sacrificing power.

The untapped elephant in the living room w/ him is the bunt/infield hits. If he can become a bit more proficient in that area....he will be one of the most dangerous players in the league.

I think pretty much ever hitter in baseball is susceptible to slumps. There are very few players who can stay at an even keel level throughout the season. Those guys likely end up as league MVP's or have the last names of Pujols, Votto, etc.

Stubbs will always be a streaky player and I don't think anyone will doubt that. I do think if he can cut down on his strikeouts and make better contact he will be very very dangerous. A guy with his speed can turn a routine grounder to SS a bang bang play. It would be nice to see him improve his bunting just to add that threat to his game. I don't exactly want to see him sacrifice his power in an attempt to add a couple more bunt hits a year.

If Stubbs just goes through that natural progression of improving with experience he will become one of the better all around CF's in the game.

[MississippiRed]

I'm crazy about Stubbs; I just love to watch him play. My saying earlier in the season was that if he can OPS .750, I wouldn't trade him for any other NL CF.

Other comments:

Curtis Granderson has 17 home runs since the ASB? And GABP gets credit as a home run park?

And, I think DougDirt still isn't reasonable, but was within the acceptable margin of error with regards to being right about Stubbs.

[osuceltic]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

Drew Stubbs = Mike Cameron?

Stubbs has been a 3 win player this season despite his defense being vastly underrated by UZR. UZR has him as basically a league average defender, he's been much, much better than that, IMO. Sure, he had a couple blunders early in the season but overall, he's played at a Gold Glove level. There are maybe one or two center fielders in all of baseball with comparable range to Stubbs.

He's an excellent fielder, but I don't think he had a great year defensively. Although his struggles around the wall have been exaggerated here at times (but there is some truth there), he's surprisingly shaky when charging ground balls. He has bobbled a few and often slows down more than he should to make sure he fields them cleanly. These are areas he can clean up with more reps and experience (and practice, although that seems like a forgotten concept at the major league level). Still, I'm pretty confident he'll be a top-10 center field defender for several years.

Offensively, I think he's a guy who could have some wild fluctuating numbers over the years. He's prone to slumps and streaks, and it wouldn't shock me if he has one of those years where one or two monstrous slumps make for a nightmarish season. At the same time, I could see him having a season where the slumps are shorter and everything comes together to put him on the fringe of some MVP discussions. Especially if he puts that speed to better use on the basepaths.

[BCubb2003]

It's hard to believe he's still practically a rookie.

[lollipopcurve]

He's an excellent fielder, but I don't think he had a great year defensively. Although his struggles around the wall have been exaggerated here at times (but there is some truth there), he's surprisingly shaky when charging ground balls. He has bobbled a few and often slows down more than he should to make sure he fields them cleanly. These are areas he can clean up with more reps and experience (and practice, although that seems like a forgotten concept at the major league level). Still, I'm pretty confident he'll be a top-10 center field defender for several years.

Solid analysis. In a sense, his defensive game is similar to his offensive game. He's got some nice tools, but there remains a fair amount of untapped potential. I hope he's able to grow into his defensive game the way he appears to be developing on the offensive side. He's got to get a little more aggressive out there so he can make some tougher plays -- right now, he's just a bit tentative. The play at the wall on the night they clinched may boost his confidence some -- I hope so.

[chicoruiz]

Which probably means he should be a #5-6 type hitter instead of, say, a leadoff hitter then, no?

Actually, the #5 spot in the order leads off more innings than any spot other than the #1 spot. It's a common misconception that a low OBP, high power guy should hit #5.

[Boss-Hog]

Originally Posted by osuceltic

He's an excellent fielder, but I don't think he had a great year defensively. Although his struggles around the wall have been exaggerated here at times (but there is some truth there), he's surprisingly shaky when charging ground balls. He has bobbled a few and often slows down more than he should to make sure he fields them cleanly. These are areas he can clean up with more reps and experience (and practice, although that seems like a forgotten concept at the major league level). Still, I'm pretty confident he'll be a top-10 center field defender for several years.

Offensively, I think he's a guy who could have some wild fluctuating numbers over the years. He's prone to slumps and streaks, and it wouldn't shock me if he has one of those years where one or two monstrous slumps make for a nightmarish season. At the same time, I could see him having a season where the slumps are shorter and everything comes together to put him on the fringe of some MVP discussions. Especially if he puts that speed to better use on the basepaths.

I agree - I think he's been pretty good, but certainly not Gold Glove worthy, on defense this year. You can't selectively choose to use UZR when it supports what your eyes tell you and ignore it when it doesn't. I think he definitely has a chance to improve with time to put himself in the top tier of CF defenders (and hopefully, with continued improvements offensively, one of the better overall players in the game at that position).

[Brutus]

Anyone notice on that first like TRF posted that Jim Edmonds leads the NL CF in OPS since the break? He's got 7 homers despite not playing a ton. I really, really hope he can be used next week.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by Boss-Hog

I agree - I think he's been pretty good, but certainly not Gold Glove worthy, on defense this year. You can't selectively choose to use UZR when it supports what your eyes tell you and ignore it when it doesn't. I think he definitely has a chance to improve with time to put himself in the top tier of CF defenders (and hopefully, with continued improvements offensively, one of the better overall players in the game at that position).

This post and the one it quotes pretty much are spot on with how I saw Stubbs' defense as well.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

Drew Stubbs = Mike Cameron?

Stubbs has been a 3 win player this season despite his defense being vastly underrated by UZR. UZR has him as basically a league average defender, he's been much, much better than that, IMO. Sure, he had a couple blunders early in the season but overall, he's played at a Gold Glove level. There are maybe one or two center fielders in all of baseball with comparable range to Stubbs.

The issue with this is that great range doesn't automatically = great fielding.

[mth123]

I was a Stubbs skeptic, but I've seen enough to become a firm supporter. IMO all he needs to do to become a legendary defender in CF is to play a couple steps in. He's had some easily seen issues at the wall, but its rarely because he doesn't get there in time (and doesn't really happen frequently enough to matter in the big scheme of things IMO). His real issue IMO is too many dinkers and dunkers falling in front of him. A couple steps in converts a lot more of those to outs IMO with little effect on his ability to get back on balls hit to the wall. If the ball has any air under it and enough juice to go that far, he'll get back with his range. If its hit on a line with enough heat on it to make to the wall, he won't make the play unless its hit right at him anyway. I don't think playing in a couple steps will cost him anything on well hit balls and could save the staff a lot of baserunners.

[kaldaniels]

Stubbs will be a fast guy for most of his career...but how long do you think his elite speed will last?