Bengals-Browns game thread

[Redhook]

Originally Posted by Todd Gack

Look, I don't think Ward was trying to hurt him.

I disagree, I think he was. He didn't have to hit him squarely in the face/head. There are really hard hits, then there are malicious, intentional blows directly to the head. This was the latter. Just a brutal, brutal hit. I just watched it a few more times and it gets worse the more you see it. Ward obliterated Shipley's face/head. Shipley will suffer short-term and long-term effects from this hit. It's the fact that the hit was directly to Shipley's head that irritates me the most and why I think it was so bad.

[Redhook]

Originally Posted by WVRed

I think Ward will be fined, but saying that he should go to jail is just as laughable as the people who said the same about Rufus after tackling Brutus a couple of weeks ago.

Terrible analogy. Comparing this intentional, dirty hit that will affect someone's life to the mascots shenanigans is ignorant.

What if Shipley suffered a brain hemorrage or something of the sort? What if he got paralyzed from this cheap hit? Would your opinion change? There is a big difference between the game of football and garbage hits like that. I'd still love to see him go to jail for a few days for that hit.

[kaldaniels]

We can argue in circles, so I'll just state my opinion and leave it be. I don't think it was an intentional head shot. Shipley was being dragged to the ground, and in that split second he got drilled in the head. Had he not been falling it would have been a shot to the chest. Do I know this for sure? No. But nor does anyone else know it was intentional.

[WMR]

You forgot how classy Browns fans could be since they all kept quiet while they were horrible.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by Todd Gack

10 years ago, not many people would've said much.

Look, I don't think Ward was trying to hurt him. He was just trying to hit him really, really, really hard just like pretty much every other defender out there. This is the NFL and the NFL has made it a softer sport with these kind of hits. Heck, Europeons are now laughing at us for how soft the NFL has become. He deserved to be flagged by rule and I agree with that. But I don't agree with everyone saying it was 'dirty.'

Are these the same fans that thought Hines Ward's hit was dirty on Keith Rivers? It's amazing how soft, not only has the NFL become, but the fans too.

Oh, of course! Todd Gack. Who did you bet was in Star Wars? Sammy Davis Jr.?

[Brutus]

Bad hit, but not as criminal as it's being made out to be here.

He led with his shoulder, and did duck down as if he was going for the upper body. It was a lazy hit, which made it a bit more dangerous because it ended up being up on the face mask, but I see nothing that leads one to believe it was in any way, shape or form a hit that was meant harm on the other player.

Penalty, yes. Fined, yes. But nothing criminal about it.

[ochre]

Was Ward the one that went helmet to helmet on Gresham earlier, or was that Wright?

[Yachtzee]

Some of us Bengals fans realize that head shots, whether it be leading with the helmet or aimed at the other guy's helmet, are always bad news. David Pollack was just coming into his own when he injured his neck on a tackle where he led with his helmet. I wonder if it's going to take someone actually dying on the field before players take the shots to the head seriously.

[Redhook]

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...SPT02/10060365

Article from the Enquirer today about the hit. Ex-head Ref calls the hit "malicious". He'd like to use Ward as an example that the league won't tolerate hits like this.

[Redhook]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

Bad hit, but not as criminal as it's being made out to be here.

He led with his shoulder, and did duck down as if he was going for the upper body. It was a lazy hit, which made it a bit more dangerous because it ended up being up on the face mask, but I see nothing that leads one to believe it was in any way, shape or form a hit that was meant harm on the other player.

Penalty, yes. Fined, yes. But nothing criminal about it.

I think you're a very intelligent person and a wonderful poster on Redszone. I usually agree with you 100%. That being said, everything you wrote in the above post I disagree with. I strongly believe there was intent to hurt with his actions. I saw nothing in the hit where he was trying to lay off or hit him properly. He's a 240-pound wrecking ball smashing into someone's head with a lot of speed. Without pads, Shipley might be dead. I just don't see how anyone can think this hit wasn't that bad.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Redhook

I think you're a very intelligent person and a wonderful poster on Redszone. I usually agree with you 100%. That being said, everything you wrote in the above post I disagree with. I strongly believe there was intent to hurt with his actions. I saw nothing in the hit where he was trying to lay off or hit him properly. He's a 240-pound wrecking ball smashing into someone's head with a lot of speed. Without pads, Shipley might be dead. I just don't see how anyone can think this hit wasn't that bad.

I kinda agree with both the two of you.

First of all it was a busch league hit. No two ways about it. It was a cheap shot and Ward was attempting to knock on Shipley. That said that is the nature of football. Shipley knows when he steps on the field that it is a dangerous game. He knows that there is a risk of injury, concussion, and even paralysis that can come from playing the game of football. If your afraid to take a hit, especially as a slot receiver, you career will in all likelihood will be short.

When defenders step onto the field they want to "hurt" their opponent. They want to hit them so bad they don't want to go over the middle. They want to hit them so bad they don't want to come back into the game. When you step in between the lines it is a violent game in which both sides will do whatever they can to get an advantage. IMO nothing that happens within the confines of the game should be considered illegal. Unless someone takes off his helmet and uses it as a weapon or someone starts to attack an player who is knocked out I don't see anything illegal in the nature of a unnecessary roughness play, especially a play in which the offender was not ejected from the game.

It is up to the NFL, and the NFL has begun to do a good job of protecting its players. Ward should be fined heavily and probably should be made an example and serve a suspension. That was a tough hit, but a hit not unlike one you would see from the Jack Tatum highlights or Ray Lewis on a given day.

[Todd Gack]

Originally Posted by Redhook

I disagree, I think he was. He didn't have to hit him squarely in the face/head. There are really hard hits, then there are malicious, intentional blows directly to the head. This was the latter. Just a brutal, brutal hit. I just watched it a few more times and it gets worse the more you see it. Ward obliterated Shipley's face/head. Shipley will suffer short-term and long-term effects from this hit. It's the fact that the hit was directly to Shipley's head that irritates me the most and why I think it was so bad.

I assumed that when you play defense, a lot of these guys try to make the biggest hit as possible. If it ends up hurting someone, no one on defense really cares unless they did it on purpose.

What are DB's supposed to do these days? What if Shipley caught the pass? Was Ward supposed to just stop or slow up? You can't teach those guys this.

[Eric_the_Red]

Ward was fined $15,000 for his hit on Shipley.

[Todd Gack]

Originally Posted by Eric_the_Red

Ward was fined $15,000 for his hit on Shipley.

That's fine and I have no problem with it. According to the rules, he should've been fined. But that's why I have a problem. You can't teach defensive players to just stop or slow up on hits. The NFL likes parity. They love new teams coming up each every year and winning. But they've done nothing but to help out defenses. A lot of rule changes have been in the name of 'safety.' Kimo's hit wasn't dirty, and yet the NFL decided it was better to fine players for hits such as that. Now, we get calls like Justin Smith in Tampa or the Baltimore hit on Carson a few weeks back that decide games in the name of 'safety.'

[Redhook]

Originally Posted by Todd Gack

Was Ward supposed to just stop or slow up? You can't teach those guys this.

No, he wasn't supposed to slow up. But, he also didn't have to raise up and obliterate Shipley in the face either. And late too. He easily could've avoided the hit, or most of it, if he wanted to.

Listen, I love big hits in football. It's great to see a guy get blown up from time to time. I just can't stand cheap hits. Late hits. And, specifically, ones to the head.