Nix and Hanigan starting game 2, Wood possible to start for game 4

[Far East]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

... I think letting Halladay get a hit off you probably ranks up there as run causing plays...

I wonder if another left fielder -- Heisey or Nix -- would have caught Halliday's batted ball.

Speaking of Nix, if the Reds get a dozen hits tomorrow, I hope Laynce gets about 3 or 4 of them and forces Dusty to play him in LF against the next Phils' righty ... if it goes that far.

[Captain Hook]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

Janish vs. Cabrera doesnt make a material difference either way.

Again, we got no-hit. The buck honestly stops right there.

No one thinks pitching the next seven innings in a 1 run game as opposed to 4 run game would've changed the way that Holladay went about doing his job?

I don't think I'm reaching to say that going into the 3rd inning,of a 1 run game as opposed to a 4 run game dramatically effects how the final 7 innings plays out.Not only that, the mind set of the Reds hitter changes.The magnitude of that play is being overlooked imo. Saying it didn't matter and that the no-hitter was destined is something I didn't expect to hear here.

[Captain Hook]

BTW.Sorry for derailing this thread almost completely.

[oregonred]

Originally Posted by Edd Roush

Haha, I didn't even consider that possibility until you said something. Thanks for letting that thought enter into my mind :thumbdown

Any ways, what does everyone think the line-up will look like tomorrow?

Dusty will likely go with

Phillips
Cabrera
Votto
Rolen
Bruce
Nix
Stubbs
Hanigan
Arroyo

I would go with
Stubbs
Bruce
Votto
Rolen
Nix
Hanigan
Phillips
Janish
Arroyo

I would love that lineup to mix things up tomorrow night. Too out of the box and logical for the current regime to even consider.

[Griffey012]

Originally Posted by Captain Hook

I can't help but to agree completely.I get what everyone is saying about Dusty and the vets and Cabrera being a great clubhouse guy.It's just that Cabrera contributed nothing last night and certainly cost the team 3 runs.For a great leader his playoff track record is poor.

Say what you want about how great Halladay was last night, but even for the great ones it's much more difficult to pitch with a one run lead opposed to cruising thru almost the entire game with a 4 run lead.

Nobody on our team contributed ANYTHING except for Bruce and his BB and the Bullpen. We might as well bench the whole team then. How about Rolen and his 0'fer and 3'ks? Do we bench him too. Oh wait, Rolen didn't walk hitters with 2 outs, he didnt get behind on every single hitter, he didn't collapse after a play that may have been a potential out, but I have no seen footage that shows there was a play at first.

But wait, OCab did all of that, that's right...lets take it out on the whipping boy. How does he "certaintly" cost the team 3 runs on a debatable play?

[Captain Hook]

Originally Posted by Griffey012

Because CABRERA gave up a hit to a pitcher? Because Caberara walked a guy with 2 outs, because Cabrera proceeded to give up another walk and hit. I have seen no footage where it was even clear he had a play at first base. As much as many hate Cabrera around here, he could have given up 18 runs and we still didn't muster a hit.

I've looked around to find the play so I can review it closer.I saw the replay the few times they showed it last night but that was it.Seemed like it was a play most SS make.If someone finds a link I'd be happy to take a third and fourth look at it.As it stands, I felt he should've got the out and that it would've been a pretty big deal.I'll leave it at that.

[VR]

I think this thread proves the biggest problem for fans when you give a day off between every game in the playoffs.....

[Razor Shines]

Originally Posted by Griffey012

Nobody on our team contributed ANYTHING except for Bruce and his BB and the Bullpen. We might as well bench the whole team then. How about Rolen and his 0'fer and 3'ks? Do we bench him too. Oh wait, Rolen didn't walk hitters with 2 outs, he didnt get behind on every single hitter, he didn't collapse after a play that may have been a potential out, but I have no seen footage that shows there was a play at first.

But wait, OCab did all of that, that's right...lets take it out on the whipping boy. How does he "certaintly" cost the team 3 runs on a debatable play?

I'm all for putting the best team on the field, a lot of people have been saying Janish should be starting for more than just last night. The play wasn't debatable. It was an easy play for most short stops, saying it wasn't an easy play is silly. The dude was about half way down the line when OC fielded the ball. I'm not a rocket surgeon but I think there would have been a play at first.

No one is blaming the loss on OC, I'm just saying maybe you put your best SS out there and your chances of winning that game increase. It is true that it may not have mattered, but again I'd have liked to have found out. This isn't about one game. That's the reason no one is calling for Rolen and others to be benched, they're the best we've got at those positions and it would be silly to call for them to be benched after one bad performance.

As I said before, if OC made that error and he was the best we had it wouldn't bother me nearly as much. You could probably say the same for Volquez, he wasn't the right choice and maybe the game would have been different if Wood had started or maybe they still lose. Again, it would have been nice to find out.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by VR

I think this thread proves the biggest problem for fans when you give a day off between every game in the playoffs.....

[oregonred]

the 1/1/2/1 division series setup is a bad made for TV joke.

[Captain Hook]

Originally Posted by VR

I think this thread proves the biggest problem for fans when you give a day off between every game in the playoffs.....

No doubt.I really need something else to complain about that's more important then giving runs away.

I'll put this behind me tomorrow though and will be rooting for OCabb to make some nice plays or get a big hit so your point is valid.I'd love to eat some crow.

[Ron Madden]

Originally Posted by VR

I think this thread proves the biggest problem for fans when you give a day off between every game in the playoffs.....

You should read the Halladay throws 2nd no-hitter in postseason history thread.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by Razor Shines

I'm all for putting the best team on the field, a lot of people have been saying Janish should be starting for more than just last night.

A lot of people have said a lot of things this year. Volquez should start Game 1, Walt is asleep, this team will never win with Dusty, Masset should be cut, Nix should be cut, Stubbs should be benched, Bruce should be sent to the minors, Dickerson should start in LF, Dickerson should start in CF, Chapman should break north with the team, OCab's UZR is -36, etc etc etc.

RZ loves to pull the trigger on hypothetical moves.

[Griffey012]

Originally Posted by Razor Shines

I'm all for putting the best team on the field, a lot of people have been saying Janish should be starting for more than just last night. The play wasn't debatable. It was an easy play for most short stops, saying it wasn't an easy play is silly. The dude was about half way down the line when OC fielded the ball. I'm not a rocket surgeon but I think there would have been a play at first.

No one is blaming the loss on OC, I'm just saying maybe you put your best SS out there and your chances of winning that game increase. It is true that it may not have mattered, but again I'd have liked to have found out. This isn't about one game. That's the reason no one is calling for Rolen and others to be benched, they're the best we've got at those positions and it would be silly to call for them to be benched after one bad performance.

As I said before, if OC made that error and he was the best we had it wouldn't bother me nearly as much. You could probably say the same for Volquez, he wasn't the right choice and maybe the game would have been different if Wood had started or maybe they still lose. Again, it would have been nice to find out.

I have no issue with debating weather OCab or Janish should be starting, that's been going on all year, and it's an entertaining debate. But it seems this thread and in other threads people are trying to place most all of the blame for the first game debacle right on OCab himself because of that one play.

Until I see a replay I cannot be convinced the play was "routine." I too was dumbfounded he didn't go to first, but never got a good shot during the broadcast of a replay which showed where the runner was down the line. I believe it was Wilson Valdez who hit the ball, he is a pretty quick guy and that ball was by no means hit hard.

My bigger problem between OC and Janish is Gomes vs. Nix...and thankfully Nix is coming out there in game 2 against a tough righty. The bigger issue is in LF. The separation between Gomes and Nix vs a tough righty is much greater than Janish and OC.

[Razor Shines]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

A lot of people have said a lot of things this year. Volquez should start Game 1, Walt is asleep, this team will never win with Dusty, Masset should be cut, Nix should be cut, Stubbs should be benched, Bruce should be sent to the minors, Dickerson should start in LF, Dickerson should start in CF, Chapman should break north with the team, OCab's UZR is -36, etc etc etc.

RZ loves to pull the trigger on hypothetical moves.

Well the only thing I've felt strongly enough to post about this season has been Janish over OCab. Well, actually I was in favor of sticking with Bruce and Stubbs even through their tough times, but those seemed obvious to me.