Upset for the MVP?

[MikeThierry]

I have said on here many times in the past that Votto deserves the MVP this year, though I will always be a Pujols fan. That said, do any of you see an upset this year for the MVP? I ask this because Pujols won the Silver Slugger award today, which was surprising to me. From what I understand, the Silver Slugger is voted on by coaches and managers so it probably has some of the same flaws that the Gold Glove awards have (though there are better stats to go off of when picking an offensive player). However, if you look at some of the advanced saber stats such as WAR and Offensive War (which are stats I hate by the way), Pujols is at the top of those stats. I know there are a lot of MVP voters that follow the more modern day saber stats or at least let those stats have a say in how they vote. Pujols had the highest overall WAR in the NL with a 7.2 and had the highest offensive war in the majors with a 7.4. Again, I hate those stats but those stats cannot be underestimated as far as how it plays into the voting in the MVP. Plus looking at the talent that Pujols had around him this year, I could actually see an upset. We have seen it in the past when Pujols was snubbed several times against Bonds and that one year when Howard won it.

I think Votto should get it but I have just a gut feeling that the voters might select Pujols.

[MikeThierry]

Also I can think of only one other instance where a player lost the MVP vote while winning the Silver Slugger and Gold Glove in the same year. Derek Lee won the Silver Slugger and Gold Glove in '05. Pujols won the MVP. I give you that the Silver Slugger is a recent award (1980's I think) but all this stuff smells of an upset this year in the MVP race.

[scott91575]

MVP takes into account team performance, silver slugger does not. Votto wins it easy.

[MikeThierry]

So because the team around a player sucks, that player should be punished even if he has an outstanding year? There have been several MVP's in which their teams did no make the playoffs yet they won the MVP.

[scott91575]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

So because the team around a player sucks, that player should be punished even if he has an outstanding year? There have been several MVP's in which their teams did no make the playoffs yet they won the MVP.

Re read....

MVP takes into account team performance

takes into account. I repeat, takes into account.

When candidates are close, and sometimes not even that close, the success of the team is a big determining factor. Votto and Pujols are close. The success of the Reds (especially since the two teams are in the same division) puts Votto over the top.

Who cares if it's fair or how you see it? I am not going to argue that. It's just the way it is. Deal with it.

Anyway, I tell you what. Pujols wins, I will never post again. Votto wins, you go away and stay on the Cardinals board. Deal?

[jwertz]

It is irritating that Cards and Cubs fans always ruin a good time. Fact of the matter is that Pujols as great as he is could not get his team to the playoffs. Even with a rotation made up of CY Young candidates, another MVP caliber player, and one of baseballs all time great managers (as much as I hate him, Larussa is a hall of famer). If you take Votto off of the Reds they don't sniff the playoffs. Stats are great, but what happened to using your eyeballs. Both are great players, but Votto was more "valuable."

[code]

Originally Posted by jwertz

It is irritating that Cards and Cubs fans always ruin a good time. Fact of the matter is that Pujols as great as he is could not get his team to the playoffs. Even with a rotation made up of CY Young candidates, another MVP caliber player, and one of baseballs all time great managers (as much as I hate him, Larussa is a hall of famer). If you take Votto off of the Reds they don't sniff the playoffs. Stats are great, but what happened to using your eyeballs. Both are great players, but Votto was more "valuable."

I agree with you 100% Mr.JWertz

[swaisuc]

I'm with the majority here....

We're basically splitting hairs in performance between the 2. I would say team success will break the tie.

[Vottomatic]

I have this bad feeling that CarGo is going to slip in and win it. Kinda feel like Joey and Albert are going to split votes allowing CarGo to get it.

[mroby85]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

I have this bad feeling that CarGo is going to slip in and win it. Kinda feel like Joey and Albert are going to split votes allowing CarGo to get it.

It would be a complete joke if he won it, if you look at his stats away from Coors Field the difference is absurd.

[Brandon4MVP]

Writers vote on mvp and players and managers vote on gold glove and silver slugger. John Fay has said that he has not talked to a writer who did not vote for Votto. Votto is the MVP easy

[Natty Redlocks]

Silver Slugger and especially GG always struck me as sort of consolation prizes.

[mckbearcat48]

Votto should win MVP. Without him, Reds probably aren't as good. Without Pujols, the Cardinals still suck this year.

[Kingspoint]

Originally Posted by mckbearcat48

Votto should win MVP. Without him, Reds probably aren't as good. Without Pujols, the Cardinals still suck this year.

[MikeThierry]

Wow, sorry I said anything. I'm just saying there could be an upset, thats all. I never said that Votto didn't deserve it, which some of you think I believe he doesn't. Sorry jwertz if my thread "ruined" the good time you have on these boards or that you would go so far as making a bet to ban each other from this board, scott.

I think if Votto wasn't on the team you guys would have still made the playoffs. The Reds did have statistically the best offense in the NL. Granted, Votto played a huge role but you had a lot of players that played fundamentally sound ball, as far as hitting goes, this year. All I know is that if Pujols wasn't on the Cards, they would have been a step above the Pirates this year if you look at the "talent" that he was surrounded with.

If Cargo wins the award, they just need to get rid of the award all together.