2010 Indianapolis Colts

[kaldaniels]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/...eerstats/69814

From 04 to 06 he was playing as well as just about any QB ever has. Looking at his yd/att, TD total (not so much honestly), and TD to INT ratio...he has being trending down ever since. And trending down for Manning still gives you a great QB, but I think we are at the crossroads where the Aaron Rodgers-type QB is passing him by.

[Razor Shines]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/...eerstats/69814

From 04 to 06 he was playing as well as just about any QB ever has. Looking at his yd/att, TD total (not so much honestly), and TD to INT ratio...he has being trending down ever since. And trending down for Manning still gives you a great QB, but I think we are at the crossroads where the Aaron Rodgers-type QB is passing him by.

Pretty slim drop. Last year was his 4th best season of his career, BTW. Wonder if losing Harrison after 06 and the colts not really replacing him with anyone solid had anything to do with the slight drop.

First year they really had a deep threat since 06 was last year in Garcon and he's nothing too special.

[kaldaniels]

Originally Posted by Razor Shines

Pretty slim drop. Last year was his 4th best season of his career, BTW. Wonder if losing Harrison after 06 and the colts not really replacing him with anyone solid had anything to do with the slight drop.

First year they really had a deep threat since 06 was last year in Garcon and he's nothing too special.

Harrison left after 08. He and Manning were special together.

[Razor Shines]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

Harrison left after 08. He and Manning were special together.

Harrison left after 06, he was still employed by the colts until 08.

[kaldaniels]

Originally Posted by Razor Shines

Harrison left after 06, he was still employed by the colts until 08.

That is wrong. Sorry.

[gilpdawg]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

That is wrong. Sorry.

I think he's referring to the fact that Harrison was a shell of his former self in 2008 & 2007.


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[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Cedric

I'm usually open for any debate. I'm pretty sure I'm not even willing to listen to the opinions of someone that thinks Peyton Manning is the 9th best NFL Qb.

I mean that with no personal disrespect. I just doubt that person knows anything about this subject.

Ninth may be a little strong here. But no longer would I pick him as the #1 or #2 QB in the league. #1 for me has always been Brady. Brady has been a winner since he stepped onto the field. IMO that always set him apart from Manning. #2 for me now is Rivers. Rivers has been without his top two WR's this entire season and keeps putting up numbers. And you don't hear people using it as a crutch for him. With all the injuries Manning has had he still has his top WR available for ever game.

As for QB's right now I think you have to put Brady, Rivers, and Brees ahead of Manning. Vick is a wild card because when he is on he is the hardest in the game to stop. Big Ben won't put up numbers but he finds a way to win. And then you have Matt Ryan who looks to be the up and coming QB star.

So right now my list would go
1. Brady
2. Rivers
3. Brees
4. Manning
5. Ben
6. Ryan
7. Vick

[kaldaniels]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

Ninth may be a little strong here. But no longer would I pick him as the #1 or #2 QB in the league. #1 for me has always been Brady. Brady has been a winner since he stepped onto the field. IMO that always set him apart from Manning. #2 for me now is Rivers. Rivers has been without his top two WR's this entire season and keeps putting up numbers. And you don't hear people using it as a crutch for him. With all the injuries Manning has had he still has his top WR available for ever game.

As for QB's right now I think you have to put Brady, Rivers, and Brees ahead of Manning. Vick is a wild card because when he is on he is the hardest in the game to stop. Big Ben won't put up numbers but he finds a way to win. And then you have Matt Ryan who looks to be the up and coming QB star.

So right now my list would go
1. Brady
2. Rivers
3. Brees
4. Manning
5. Ben
6. Ryan
7. Vick

Absolutely fair take Bucksfans.

Let me introduce another variable into this, and I intend this as a compliment for Manning. If you give Manning solid offensive line protection and a set of decent recievers that he has worked with for a few years...I'd say no one can sit back and pick apart a defense like him.

However, most teams out there have a chink or two in their armor, of which a QB has to instinctively make a play. I don't think that is one of Peyton's strong suits. Or maybe I should say, most of the guys I rank above him are better at that than Manning.

[Eric_the_Red]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

1) Yes

2) Some of both.

I am wondering if an injury or bothersome ailment that hasn't been disclosed is lurking around as well, FYI.

Manning's stats thru the first 8 games in 2010:
96.3 QB rating
2478 passing yards
16 TD
4 INT

Heck of a downside to a career.

[kaldaniels]

Originally Posted by Eric_the_Red

Manning's stats thru the first 8 games in 2010:
96.3 QB rating
2478 passing yards
16 TD
4 INT

Heck of a downside to a career.

If you like you can re-type that using his current stats to see how it looks.

As I wrote earlier, he has been trending down since 06. (Of course down for Manning is still a very good QB).

Where do you think Manning is today in regards to his career? In his prime?

[Eric_the_Red]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

If you like you can re-type that using his current stats to see how it looks.

As I wrote earlier, he has been trending down since 06. (Of course down for Manning is still a very good QB).

Where do you think Manning is today in regards to his career? In his prime?

I asked if he was entering his downside through the first 8 games this year, and you said yes. I presented evidence to show this was not the case.

Manning's stats did not begin to drop until the team lost their starting RB, their #3 RB, their #1 TE, and their #2 or 3 WR. Any of the 8 or 9 QBs that you feel are better than Manning right now would experience the same steep decline in their stats if their team lost that many weapons on offense at one time.

As for your questions, I think Manning today, with a healthy supporting cast, is every bit as good as he ever was.

[kaldaniels]

I misread your question Eric, or the spirit there of, because Manning's best years were 04 to 06. So he wasn't "entering" the downside early this year, because he was already in it to a degree.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Eric_the_Red

I asked if he was entering his downside through the first 8 games this year, and you said yes. I presented evidence to show this was not the case.

Manning's stats did not begin to drop until the team lost their starting RB, their #3 RB, their #1 TE, and their #2 or 3 WR. Any of the 8 or 9 QBs that you feel are better than Manning right now would experience the same steep decline in their stats if their team lost that many weapons on offense at one time.

As for your questions, I think Manning today, with a healthy supporting cast, is every bit as good as he ever was.

Its the NFL and injuries happen. Manning has been fortunate for the majority of his career that none of his big guns were injured.

Why is Manning regressing when his offensive weapons get hurt while Rivers is surging?

[Razor Shines]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

That is wrong. Sorry.

He played five games in 07 and played injured for all 15 games of 08. Due to injuries and old age, he was gone after 06.

[Eric_the_Red]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

Its the NFL and injuries happen. Manning has been fortunate for the majority of his career that none of his big guns were injured.

Why is Manning regressing when his offensive weapons get hurt while Rivers is surging?

Of course injuries happen. What does that have to do with the fact that injuries have affected Manning's numbers this year? Injuries happen, they can lead to a decline in stats, and that has happened to Manning this season.

As for your second question A) I don't think Manning is regressing, and B) Rivers didn't lose Gates for the year, he has a much deeper RB and WR group, he knew Jackson was holding out so they coudl prepare and he has faced a much easier schedule than Manning & the Colts have. Plus, the Colts have more wins. If the argument is Rivers vs Manning with the exact same offenses behind them, give me Manning every day and twice on Sunday.