Reds fielding calls about Alonso

[I(heart)Freel]

Originally Posted by mth123

If/when Votto leaves it might be nice to have Alonso around, but he's most likely nothing more than a backfill and not an MVP caliber replacement. Backfills at 1B can be had pretty easily and there is no need to hang onto him for that.

I agree with this. I like Alonso, but if you can get something you need for him now, you do it. If Votto shows no signs of signing a LTC in the next two years, then you either ask for a stud 1B prospect in the package of players you require for him, or you use some of the money you earmarked for Votto to go get a league average 1B who are seemingly available every off-season.

[Orenda]

Originally Posted by thatcoolguy_22

Could just be a play by WJ to up the asking price somewhat. If teams think Alonso is completely unneeded, then they will only want to pay pennies on the dollar. BCast seems pretty adamant about signing Votto.

Jocketty knows what he is doing here, if he is thinking about trading Alonso he knows that it's not going to help his return if he makes it sound like he is just trying to deal him within a limited time frame.

[buckeyenut]

We can help the team by dealing Alonso now, or by dealing Alonso at the deadline. Obviously, now helps more, but I think we have enough to get us to the playoffs already so better to find the right deal.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by hebroncougar

I deal Alonso ASAP. I still try and find something Tampa has that I want/need, or at least include them in a 3 way.

Alonso and Leake/Bailey plus prospects for Garza and Joyce.

Another point about the Alonso/Votto debate. I think this was made before, but let me reiterate it. This isn't an either/or decision. A Votto trade could return a 1b prospect of equal or greater value than Alonso. Or a 3b prospect of that caliber and Rolen moves to 1b to finish his career. Or the Reds draft another 1b who is ready in 3 years (Alonso took 2.5 years to develop). Holding on to Alonso while he has trade value is a waste of resources, plain and simple.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Dan

Alonso and Leake/Bailey plus prospects for Garza and Joyce.

Another point about the Alonso/Votto debate. I think this was made before, but let me reiterate it. This isn't an either/or decision. A Votto trade could return a 1b prospect of equal or greater value than Alonso. Or a 3b prospect of that caliber and Rolen moves to 1b to finish his career. Or the Reds draft another 1b who is ready in 3 years (Alonso took 2.5 years to develop). Holding on to Alonso while he has trade value is a waste of resources, plain and simple.

Amen

[camisadelgolf]

Originally Posted by Dan

Alonso and Leake/Bailey plus prospects for Garza and Joyce.

Another point about the Alonso/Votto debate. I think this was made before, but let me reiterate it. This isn't an either/or decision. A Votto trade could return a 1b prospect of equal or greater value than Alonso. Or a 3b prospect of that caliber and Rolen moves to 1b to finish his career. Or the Reds draft another 1b who is ready in 3 years (Alonso took 2.5 years to develop). Holding on to Alonso while he has trade value is a waste of resources, plain and simple.

Garza isn't an ace; he's more of a middle-of-the-rotation starter, so I'm not really sure a need is filled there. And if the Rays are going to deal Garza, I'm sure they'd have interest in only positional players or relievers.
Garza >>> Leake/Bailey (right now--later on, it might turn out to be a wash)
Joyce > Alonso (not by much, but it could change either way later on)
It would have to take at least one major prospect to make this deal happen, and like I said, the pitchers aren't filling needs for either team.

[mdccclxix]

Grandal is another option at 1b, especially if Mez is legit.

[RedsManRick]

I'm not sure I understand Walt's logic, unless 1 of 2 things is going on:

1) There's some thought about trading Votto sooner rather than later.
2) He's strengthening his bargaining position by suggesting that the Reds value Alonso more highly than others may think

If Votto's contract status isn't an issue for a few years, you're talking about letting a ripe Alonso rot on the vine in AAA. It's not hard to find quality 1B options; it's just not. If and when you have to Votto, if it comes to that, you can always include a 1B as part of the package coming back. As far as I'm concerned, given that the Reds' future is now and that there's so much uncertainty about the future, it seems odd to simply sit on a significant asset. I think it's still likely that if Walt makes a trade, Alonso is part of it.

[kaldaniels]

Originally Posted by Dan

Alonso and Leake/Bailey plus prospects for Garza and Joyce.

Another point about the Alonso/Votto debate. I think this was made before, but let me reiterate it. This isn't an either/or decision. A Votto trade could return a 1b prospect of equal or greater value than Alonso. Or a 3b prospect of that caliber and Rolen moves to 1b to finish his career. Or the Reds draft another 1b who is ready in 3 years (Alonso took 2.5 years to develop). Holding on to Alonso while he has trade value is a waste of resources, plain and simple.

I'm not sure how long you define "holding onto". But unless I'm bowled over today, I want Alonso in AAA hopefully fully recovered from the wrist injury putting up some great numbers this year. That will make him more valuable than he is today.

[Eric_the_Red]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

I'm not sure how long you define "holding onto". But unless I'm bowled over today, I want Alonso in AAA hopefully fully recovered from the wrist injury putting up some great numbers this year. That will make him more valuable than he is today.

Exactly. Again, I think this off-season is jumping the gun if the Reds dealt either one. Let's see what we have before we make a deal, lest we end up with no ML ready first baseman.

I also think the Reds can contend as is. Some more help would be nice, but if the season started today the Reds would be my pick to win the division again.

[Ghosts of 1990]

I think they're going to wait and see whether or not Joey Votto is truly going to try and break the bank with a new contract. And I'll admit, the more time goes on I think we're all being a little naive to think that "he just wants to stay in a small town and play in Cincinnati because it's quaint and our city is a good baseball city".

Joey's quotes aren't sounding like he really knows what he is going to do yet. I saw firsthand a fan base selling themselves that an athlete was going to 'do the right thing' in their eyes and re-sign with the cavs when the fold should have been seen long before.

There are some smoke signals here--and its a very real possibility that Votto leaves here when his contract is up. Yes, he could yield first base prospects who are top of the line; but they're only prospects at the end of the day. Walt & co must feel like Alonso is another sure thing, they're being very careful with dangling him. It's weird

[backbencher]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

2) He's strengthening his bargaining position by suggesting that the Reds value Alonso more highly than others may think

This.

It's clearly a story planted by the Reds. Who else in baseball gives a hill of beans about Alonso? No fanbases are clamoring to trade for him, no reporters were told to ask Jocketty about him.

(That's not a knock on Alonso -- just the reality of a non-megastar AAA 1B.)

[TheNext44]

.289/.386/.477

.291/.368/.458

First line is Votto's minor league career slash line.

Second is Alonso's minor league career slash line.

Alonso's includes a serious hand injury for most of it.

Even their AAA numbers are similar.

My only point is that shouldn't act like we know that Alonso will be a generic, easy to find 1B. Everyone said the same thing about Votto when he was coming up. Votto too was considered the Reds most tradable asset.

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

I'm not sure I understand Walt's logic, unless 1 of 2 things is going on:

1) There's some thought about trading Votto sooner rather than later.
2) He's strengthening his bargaining position by suggesting that the Reds value Alonso more highly than others may think.

Walt's in a fascinating game here where Alonso is his best chip against Votto (if they don't work out a deal with Votto, they can go year-to-year and then ship him someplace next year and install Alonso at first), but Votto is also the best chip Walt has against other team's for Alonso (as long as a deal ISN'T in place, Alonso still has perceived value to the club).

Once Votto signs, Alonso's value tanks -- but once Alonso is dealt, Votto's asking price probably increases.

[RANDY IN INDY]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

Walt's in a fascinating game here where Alonso is his best chip against Votto (if they don't work out a deal with Votto, they can go year-to-year and then ship him someplace next year and install Alonso at first), but Votto is also the best chip Walt has against other team's for Alonso (as long as a deal ISN'T in place, Alonso still has perceived value to the club).

Once Votto signs, Alonso's value tanks -- but once Alonso is dealt, Votto's asking price probably increases.

Wise, you are.