I think Chris Valaika needs to Play in Orlandos spot

[mth123]

My vote is to extend Phillips in the manner that Arroyo was extended and wait for Billy Hamilton. Convert Phillips option to a 3 year $27 Million deal that ends his run after 2014 and avoid the downgrade. I like Negron (#14 on my list) and Cozart (#3 on my list) better than most, but both are big drop-offs from Phillips IMO. Both of those guys get most of their value by being able to play SS well enough to field the position every day w/o killing the pitching staff and having some offensive skills to build on. Playing 2B makes them much less appealing.

[kpresidente]

Cozart is the SS of the future. I don't want him wasting away on the bench next year, I want him in Louisville trying to figure out how to get his walk rate back to where it was in '09. I'd put Valaika on the roster because he's as ready as he'll ever be and I don't care about his development anyway, but I'd call up Cozart to start if Janish gets hurt for any extended period of time.

[PeteRoseBelongs]

Originally Posted by UPRedsFan

With Phillips potentially walking after next year they need to start grooming his replacement. Seems to me that Valaika has the inside track on that for 2012. Would like to see him tested this year in a bench role the way Heisey was last year. Can he hold his own with the stick at the major league level or not? On the other hand if Frazier beats him out, so be it. They can test Frazier instead. I think one of them needs to be the 5th bench guy so we can see what they're capable of.

at first I didn't like this thread but thanks to Michelle people are talking. I can agree with Dusty and disagree that he has loyalty with vets over youngsters.

Votto, Stubbs, Heisey, Hanigan, and now Janish are going to get very nice playing time.

where I disagree is Rolen and Cairo and the contract of Phillips. I think we can all agree that none of us can see Phillips beyond this season. Saying that we have to have someone ready to go. Torreys (sorry spelling) is not going to be ready any time soon. Frazier has done all he can do in the minors and keeping him there is pointless. Valeika played well at second last season. Francisco has got be given a chance.

I have said a thousand times I would like to see Francisco should play 3 or 4 days a week at third and allow Rolen to teach him to be a major league player.

My only beef with BP is that he doesn't run out grounders or fly balls as much as we would like and he thinks he is a 4 hitter. I would like to see the Reds trade BP for a couple of specs and retain Rolen to help this team from a off the field leadership role if he would go for it.

As I recall most shortstops when I was a kid weren't great hitters but they had great gloves that saved teams runs with great def. I like Janish and want to see what he can do full time. I would like to see the Reds address Phillips certain departure due to salary and lets gear up for the next 5 to 7 years.

[PeteRoseBelongs]

Originally Posted by kpresidente

Cozart is the SS of the future. I don't want him wasting away on the bench next year, I want him in Louisville trying to figure out how to get his walk rate back to where it was in '09. I'd put Valaika on the roster because he's as ready as he'll ever be and I don't care about his development anyway, but I'd call up Cozart to start if Janish gets hurt for any extended period of time.

agreed

[mth123]

Originally Posted by PeteRoseBelongs

at first I didn't like this thread but thanks to Michelle people are talking. I can agree with Dusty and disagree that he has loyalty with vets over youngsters.

Votto, Stubbs, Heisey, Hanigan, and now Janish are going to get very nice playing time.

where I disagree is Rolen and Cairo and the contract of Phillips. I think we can all agree that none of us can see Phillips beyond this season. Saying that we have to have someone ready to go. Torreys (sorry spelling) is not going to be ready any time soon. Frazier has done all he can do in the minors and keeping him there is pointless. Valeika played well at second last season. Francisco has got be given a chance.

I have said a thousand times I would like to see Francisco should play 3 or 4 days a week at third and allow Rolen to teach him to be a major league player.

My only beef with BP is that he doesn't run out grounders or fly balls as much as we would like and he thinks he is a 4 hitter. I would like to see the Reds trade BP for a couple of specs and retain Rolen to help this team from a off the field leadership role if he would go for it.

As I recall most shortstops when I was a kid weren't great hitters but they had great gloves that saved teams runs with great def. I like Janish and want to see what he can do full time. I would like to see the Reds address Phillips certain departure due to salary and lets gear up for the next 5 to 7 years.

I think Phillips has some flaws. He's real splitty, killing lefty pitching and struggling against RHP (but he's improved a lot the last two years). I also hate it when he doesn't run hard and he's a horrible baserunner who gets thrown out on the bases regularly. Even so, there is no one that the Reds have that won't be a major downgrade both offensively and defensively. I like middle infielders to be good defenders, not just at SS but 2B as well. Unless the team goes to a defense first guy with a shaky bat like Cozart or Negron, I just don't see anyone I'd want out there behind the pitching staff everyday. Even so called offensive guys like Frazier and Valaika are fairly limited offensively and would do well to provide the offense that Phillips does (and really, the Frazier to 2B ship seems to have sailed, I hope he gets a long look at 3B otherwise he's a LF with an infielder's bat). The Reds should be looking to add years for a lower annual salary with Phillips to buy some time until somebody like Hamilton is ready.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Originally Posted by redsmetz

That wasn't true of Drew Stubbs. It wasn't true of Jay Bruce when he was struggling. I continue to argue that Baker has shown himself incredibly patient with our youngsters. Presumably by the end of Baker's career here, the myths will have fallen by the wayside.

Agreed. While some may not care for Dusty, the bad knocks against him prior to him coming here have pretty much all been proven false during his tenure here. He doesn't overwork young arms, he doesn't put rookies to sleep, he's not an opponent of the walk...now his lineups...they have something to be desired, but so do most managers IMO.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

Agreed. While some may not care for Dusty, the bad knocks against him prior to him coming here have pretty much all been proven false during his tenure here. He doesn't overwork young arms, he doesn't put rookies to sleep, he's not an opponent of the walk...now his lineups...they have something to be desired, but so do most managers IMO.

I agree with most of this, but he rode Homer Bailey pretty hard, needlessly so, at the end of 2009.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

I agree with most of this, but he rode Homer Bailey pretty hard, needlessly so, at the end of 2009.

And IMO ruined his 2010 and delayed his establishing himself by a full season.

I'm still hoping he can rebound, because at least until Chapman gets himself prepared to pitch in the rotation and the pen is left for somebody else, Homer is still the Reds best chance at coming up with a TOR starter.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

I agree with most of this, but he rode Homer Bailey pretty hard, needlessly so, at the end of 2009.

I know what you mean, but I don't completely agree. The pitch counts & innings are very subjective in the first place. They're going to vary widely depending upon the pitcher & his frame. But for my money, continuing to build on Homer's confidence was more important than an inning here and 10 pitches there. It's obviously a fine line to walk, but I truthfully don't think it contributed to the 2010 injury. When he was rollin' like he was in the second half of 2009, the confidence boost will reap dividends down the road IMO.

[Tadasimha]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

I know what you mean, but I don't completely agree. The pitch counts & innings are very subjective in the first place. They're going to vary widely depending upon the pitcher & his frame. But for my money, continuing to build on Homer's confidence was more important than an inning here and 10 pitches there. It's obviously a fine line to walk, but I truthfully don't think it contributed to the 2010 injury. When he was rollin' like he was in the second half of 2009, the confidence boost will reap dividends down the road IMO.

Homer looked a lot more confident in his stuff last year and seemed very poised all season long. His start against the Dodgers was tremendous, as good as he's ever pitched. I liked his work in relief against the Phillies during the playoffs even more - very cool in coming in and nailing things down for multiple innings. As much as I'd like Homer to be the ace of the staff, I think his real value is in a middle/long relief role.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by mth123

My vote is to extend Phillips in the manner that Arroyo was extended and wait for Billy Hamilton. Convert Phillips option to a 3 year $27 Million deal that ends his run after 2014 and avoid the downgrade. I like Negron (#14 on my list) and Cozart (#3 on my list) better than most, but both are big drop-offs from Phillips IMO. Both of those guys get most of their value by being able to play SS well enough to field the position every day w/o killing the pitching staff and having some offensive skills to build on. Playing 2B makes them much less appealing.

Good luck pulling that extension off. Unless Phillips has some sharp decline this season he is gonna be looking for Uggla money which incidentally is Brandon money already.

2011 Offseason Dan Uggla - 31 years old, 4 year WAR 14.9, 5 yrs 60 million
*2012 Offseason Brandon Phillips - 31 years old, 4 year WAR 15.3, ???
(*FA IN 2013 if not re-upped).

So what does this mean for Brandon Phillips? Perhaps the most important factor in any new deal for him is that he's already making Dan Uggla money. $11.25 mil this season with an option for $12 mil next season is probably the top end of the market for him, and I seriously doubt he'll sign a contract extension at a pay cut (unless he gets injured or sucks or whatever). He'll be Uggla's age now at this time next year, so you better believe his agents will be making the obvious comparison.

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