Buster Posey injured

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by jojo

Seriously? A violent collision is needed to add to the drama of a play at the plate? The game would be significantly cheapened by eliminating collisions at home?

If that's truly the case, why not make the game more exciting my allowing collisions at any base? Better yet, lets go back to the days where plucking a base runner is as good as a tag or a force out. Force outs are kinda boring truthfully. There's real drama in Jay Bruce pegging a runner square in the back as he tries to stretch a double into a triple...

If the player has the ball at 3rd he CAN block the base, and IIRC when you threw at a runner to get him out that was called "soaking" and was larger part of the New England game not the New York game.

It was gone before the SS position was invented.

[Slyder]

Originally Posted by westofyou

If the player has the ball at 3rd he CAN block the base, and IIRC when you threw at a runner to get him out that was called "soaking" and was larger part of the New England game not the New York game.

It was gone before the SS position was invented.

Except in backyard baseball with the neighborhood kids. Many nights I walked in the house looking like I had gotten in a fight with welps.

[Johnny Footstool]

Originally Posted by jojo

Seriously? A violent collision is needed to add to the drama of a play at the plate? The game would be significantly cheapened by eliminating collisions at home?

Yes.

There is inherently more drama in knowing that a play at the plate could result in two grown men knocking the bejeezus out of one another. There's really no logical argument you can make to refute it.

If that's truly the case, why not make the game more exciting my allowing collisions at any base? Better yet, lets go back to the days where plucking a base runner is as good as a tag or a force out. Force outs are kinda boring truthfully. There's real drama in Jay Bruce pegging a runner square in the back as he tries to stretch a double into a triple...

No need to take this down the slippery slope.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool

Yes.

There is inherently more drama in knowing that a play at the plate could result in two grown men knocking the bejeezus out of one another. There's really no logical argument you can make to refute it.

Sure there is...senseless violence is not aesthetically pleasing.

Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool

No need to take this down the slippery slope.

Why not? You've just argued that there is inherently more drama in knowing that a play could result in two grown men knocking the bejeezus out of one another... Rather than a slipperly slope, it's a logical extension of your argument. If it is inherently more interesting (i.e. more drama) and removing it from the game would significantly cheapen the game, then why not add more of the element? What would be the logical argument for not making every play associated with a potential for a more violent outcome?

[WVRed]

Buster Posey got Ray Fosse'd.

Out of curiosity, I wonder what the reaction would be if one of the Reds did this to Yadier Molina?

[Roy Tucker]

I think, if anything, the frequency of collisions and spikes and rough play around the bases has decreased.

From what my faulty brain can remember of the 60's and 70's, guys getting clobbered on the bases was a routine thing. It was expected. About when guys started getting really big money, they started taking offense at it. Which was around the same time that getting knocked down at the plate stopped being OK and mounds got charged.

All completely subjective.

And FWIW, if you don't like collisions, then don't play catcher. I don't like guys getting hurt, but if you put yourself in harms way, you might have to pay the price.

[CTA513]

Originally Posted by WVRed

Buster Posey got Ray Fosse'd.

Out of curiosity, I wonder what the reaction would be if one of the Reds did this to Yadier Molina?

It would be called the greatest play ever and that player should be put in the Reds HOF for that play alone.

[757690]

Originally Posted by Quatitos

After watching the video, I don't really understand how anyone can say he was really blocking the plate. He is more taking away the inside of the plate and making Cousins go outside. If Cousins hadn't been dead set on taking Posey out, he would have noticed how far out Posey leaned to get the ball and that the outside of the plate was wide open. Cousins actually had to jump towards his left to get Posey since he was not actually blocking the plate. The worst part is that Posey didn't even catch the ball so no matter what Cousins would have been safe.

I watched it again, and can see your point, but I still stand by my initial statement that Posey was in no man's land.

First, if Cousins tries to go around Posey, and Posey fields the ball cleanly, Cousins is out, as the ball clearly beat him with enough time for Posey to do a sweep tag.

But regardless, even if Cousins shouldn't have tried to run Posey over, Posey was very poorly positioned.

The proper technique that Bench established for making a sweep tag is to be way in front of the plate, and stretch your left leg straight out so that it blocks the plate. This forces the runner to either jump over the leg, or go way around it, and allows you to sweep way behind the plate once you get the ball.

Posey was too close to the plate, and had his leg tucked under him. This gave Cousins a clear path to the plate, through Posey, and made Posey's leg very vulnerable when contact was made.

If Posey is in the correct position there, Cousins can't run him over, and even if he tries, Posey would be fine.

I'm not trying to blame Posey or take blame away from Cousins for a hard slide, but just point out that if Posey had proper technique, he would have not been injured.

[15fan]

It's a self-policing dynamic.

If you don't want to get run over, don't stand in the baseline.

If you decide to plow into the catcher, plan on subsequently seeing a whole lot of high & tight fastballs each time you step into the batters box against the catcher's teammates.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by Roy Tucker

I think, if anything, the frequency of collisions and spikes and rough play around the bases has decreased.

From what my faulty brain can remember of the 60's and 70's, guys getting clobbered on the bases was a routine thing. It was expected. About when guys started getting really big money, they started taking offense at it. Which was around the same time that getting knocked down at the plate stopped being OK and mounds got charged.

All completely subjective.

And FWIW, if you don't like collisions, then don't play catcher. I don't like guys getting hurt, but if you put yourself in harms way, you might have to pay the price.

Running into the catcher became really in vogue about 110 years ago when shin guards appeared and runs were scarce, the 60's and 70's were very scarce run wise, the Fosse collision is famous for its violence, and was essentially Rose's introduction to the country's casual baseball fans.

The need for that run in that game has always been debated, but it was a product of the era, and that same era produced 3 years earlier a 15 inning game for the AS game that was a 2-1 final.

Runs are gold

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by jojo

Sure there is...senseless violence is not aesthetically pleasing.

If it's not pleasing, why are there so many fans of boxing and MMA? It must be pleasing to someone out there.

(Author's note: personally, I don't find it pleasing, but clearly many do)

[mth123]

Originally Posted by 15fan

It's a self-policing dynamic.

If you don't want to get run over, don't stand in the baseline.

If you decide to plow into the catcher, plan on subsequently seeing a whole lot of high & tight fastballs each time you step into the batters box against the catcher's teammates.

Its really that simple.

[membengal]

I sure don't get the hand-wringing. It was a clean baseball play. Posey knowingly put himself at risk with where he set up. That kind of play is an inherent risk of playing catcher. Given Posey's value to that team and that he can play 1b, the Giants had the option of removing that risk by stationing him at 1b. They chose not to. And a baseball play happened. Not sure why the fuss or the calls to change the rules.

[Roy Tucker]

home plate is a dangerous place....

YouTube - ‪Collision at Home Plate‬‏

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by membengal

I sure don't get the hand-wringing. It was a clean baseball play. Posey knowingly put himself at risk with where he set up. That kind of play is an inherent risk of playing catcher. Given Posey's value to that team and that he can play 1b, the Giants had the option of removing that risk by stationing him at 1b. They chose not to. And a baseball play happened. Not sure why the fuss or the calls to change the rules.

Posey also knowingly put himself at risk when he chose to play catcher at whatever stage in his life he did that. He and his agent shouldn't act totally in shock that this took place. They know the risks, they know the deal.