Dusty Baker

[Ron Madden]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

It is never that simple.

Devil's Advocate: How much blame does Bruce get for getting thrown at at third?

The point is we had the lead going into the 9TH ininng.

Dusty blew it by going with an over worked and ineffective Cordero.

To make matters worse he left him out there after it was apparent to everyone that Cordero didn't have his good stuff or any sign of command of his pitches.

[kaldaniels]

Originally Posted by Ron Madden

The point is we had the lead going into the 9TH ininng.

Dusty blew it by going with an over worked and ineffective Cordero.

To make matters worse he left him out there after it was apparent to everyone that Cordero didn't have his good stuff or any sign of command of his pitches.

I agree, but as blame-doler-outer...how much of the blame pie would you assign to Bruce?

[fearofpopvol1]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

I agree, but as blame-doler-outer...how much of the blame pie would you assign to Bruce?

A lot less and it's not because of any bias. Bruce was being aggressive. Dusty put Cordero in the game knowing he had been overworked the last 5 days (including a non save situation) and even after Cordero got in trouble, still continued to let him pitch.

[kaldaniels]

Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1

A lot less and it's not because of any bias. Bruce was being aggressive. Dusty put Cordero in the game knowing he had been overworked the last 5 days (including a non save situation) and even after Cordero got in trouble, still continued to let him pitch.

After not busting it out of the box.

[reds44]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

After not busting it out of the box.

95% of players don't bust it out of a box on a play like that. I'm not saying it's right, but singling Bruce out for that is not fair.

[Ron Madden]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

I agree, but as blame-doler-outer...how much of the blame pie would you assign to Bruce?

Blame-doller-outer.

I'm not the blame-doller-outer but in my opinion Dusty gets all the blame for today's loss. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

[kaldaniels]

All I'm getting at is I don't think Dusty is the reason the Reds are 4 back at the break. I understand he's not everyone's cup of tea. But do you guys really think it is Dusty, or is it lack of performance?

[kaldaniels]

Originally Posted by reds44

95% of players don't bust it out of a box on a play like that. I'm not saying it's right, but singling Bruce out for that is not fair.

Fair to me, and I love Jay Bruce. 162 game season, everyone is gonna screw up sometime. I just call it as I see it and move on.

/And again, Dusty screwed up the last 2 days as well.

[757690]

Hundreds of actions and decisions are made during a game. Dozens of them directly influence who wins.

Dusty's decision to put in Cordero was just one of those. It happened at the end, so it's natural to overvalue it, but it really was just one of many reasons why the Reds lost.

Let's put it this way, if Cordero did get the save, would the victory be because of the decision to put him in?

[Slyder]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

We can go one by one and ridicule every player/manager for a move that they made during the 2011 season. Things happen. I don't think the Reds are floundering in 4th place because of Dusty...it is because of lack of execution.

For crying out loud, what would the reaction be on here had Dusty done what LaGenius did the other night...eliminating NeckTat from the game cause he flubbed the lineup card at the start. Seriously...the board would have crashed.

Dusty has his pros and cons, just like anyone.

/But yeah he screwed up pitching Cordero Sat night. No debate needed.

*see Corey Patterson making 2 outs in an inning*

[BoydsOfSummer]

It broke my heart when they hired him.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by 757690

Hundreds of actions and decisions are made during a game. Dozens of them directly influence who wins.

Dusty's decision to put in Cordero was just one of those. It happened at the end, so it's natural to overvalue it, but it really was just one of many reasons why the Reds lost.

Let's put it this way, if Cordero did get the save, would the victory be because of the decision to put him in?

Agreed. Lots of other things happened in the game to make this sitiation. More runs on the board might have made it all moot. Dusty screwed up though. That is clear. I just think its only one of many reasons that the Reds went 2-5 on a trip to its top division rivals who were both basically missing their top guys (Pujols missed most of the Cards' series and Braun didn't play in Milwaukee).

[GAC]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

All I'm getting at is I don't think Dusty is the reason the Reds are 4 back at the break. I understand he's not everyone's cup of tea. But do you guys really think it is Dusty, or is it lack of performance?

I thoroughly agree. Dusty is a good manager. Did I get somewhat upset in yesterday's game? Sure did. Was it Dusty's fault when in the 6th Gomes gets doubled off 1B on the sharp line drive by RH to the SS? Dontrelle comes up next and doubles down the RF line. Man! What could have been there.

Where I questioned Dusty...

8th inning.... Bruce is on 2B with 1 out. Dusty lets Gomes face RHer Roe. We all know the story with Gomes and RH'd pitching, and in this AB he lived up to that rep by K'ing and looking bad doing so. I would have PH Lewis for Gomes in that situation, who has pretty solid numbers vs Rhers.

I wouldn't have used Cordero either in the 9th. They had Masset warming up in the pen, and Dusty had a good excuse, seeing Coco's performance over the previous two days, to "rest" him and use Nick.

But as it's been stating before - Dusty is loyal to his players, and Coco is his closer. His allowing Coco to close was probably a "vote of confidence" after two blown saves.

It has nothing to do with his performance over this series, but I'll be glad when Cordero is gone after this season. We have guys who, IMO, can fill that role, and not cost us 12M/year.

Silver lining? Kudos to Willis. He looked good overall. The guy is a competitor. He may very well be a upgrade this year in comparison to Volquez. We'll see.

Our pitching is improving (stabilizing overall). IMO, it's our offense. Too much inconsistency. I still say Stubbs has to come out of the leadoff spot, as well as Rolen in cleanup.

But again - this gets back to Dusty and his "loyalties". But I don't put the blunt of this team's performance this year (lethargic) solely on Baker.

[hebroncougar]

My biggest gripe (after going to Cordero), is not having someone warming up beside him after how he's pitched the last 2 days, and seeing how he didn't have it today. At least give yourself the option.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by reds44

95% of players don't bust it out of a box on a play like that. I'm not saying it's right, but singling Bruce out for that is not fair.

100% of closers have had a bad stretch in their career and have pitched out of it.