Henry Rodriguez Update (Espn.com)

[Scrap Irony]

If they make a deal for a TOR starter or a LF slugger, Phillips might be too cost prohibitive to keep.

As to whether either Rodriguez or Torreyes will be ready, none of us know that for certain. Rodriguez is now in AA. If he hits well the rest of this season (and he's done nothing but hit well since signing) and half a season next season, he'll be ready enough. He won't be Phillips offensively, certainly, nor defensively, but he'd be around league average. Perhaps more.

Torreyes is a wild card. He's hitting 400 right now in low A. Defensively, he'd be nearly Phillips' equal next season, perhaps better. Offensively, he'd be horrid. But I'm guessing-- by aggressively promoting him this season AND next-- Torreyes, as a 20 year old rookie, would be above average as a second baseman.

[HokieRed]

I predict BP will be here beyond 2012. Is another overlooked possibility Zack Cozart--if we should make a move at SS?

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

If they make a deal for a TOR starter or a LF slugger, Phillips might be too cost prohibitive to keep.

As to whether either Rodriguez or Torreyes will be ready, none of us know that for certain. Rodriguez is now in AA. If he hits well the rest of this season (and he's done nothing but hit well since signing) and half a season next season, he'll be ready enough. He won't be Phillips offensively, certainly, nor defensively, but he'd be around league average. Perhaps more.

Torreyes is a wild card. He's hitting 400 right now in low A. Defensively, he'd be nearly Phillips' equal next season, perhaps better. Offensively, he'd be horrid. But I'm guessing-- by aggressively promoting him this season AND next-- Torreyes, as a 20 year old rookie, would be above average as a second baseman.

No, they wouldn't.

H-Rod is a 21 year old in AA with a .721 OPS. That would likely translate to a .520 OPS at best in the major leagues. At this point, he would make Paul Janish look like Albert Pujols. He can possibly get there eventually, but no chance for being "around league average, perhaps more" MLB 2B next season.

Same for Torreyes. Even his biggest supporters would have serious doubts (putting it lightly) he can be "above average" as a MLB 2B 18 months from now. Sorry, but you're dreaming here.

Just ask redsof72 who knows both players better than anyone on this board.

[Scrap Irony]

Yes, they could.

18 months is a long, long time in prospect world, Beni. And Torreyes has hit like a demon since beginning pro ball. His closest competition? Mike Trout, who, 18 months ago, was playing in low A ball.

Speaking of 18 mopnths ago:

Devin Mesoraco was a bust, having played only 92 games in Sarasota.

8 of BA's top ten prospects were in A+ ball or lower.

2 of BA's top ten were still amateurs.

As to Rodriguez, the slash line of a league average 2B is less than impressive. A 700 OPS tops a 250-ish BA and a 400 slugging. Given the rest of this season in AA AND the beginning of next, do you really think Rodriguez would put up a 520 OPS in the majors? Realize, too, that the lowerst OPS of his career (season) is 250 points higher than that.

Meanwhile, Phillips will cost $12 million next season. If the Reds grab a TOR starter and/ or a monster cleanup bat for LF, where will that money come from? You can't deal Arroyo. Bruce and Cueto are likely to go anywhere. Salary bumps from arb eligibles are going to take up Cordero's cash. It's not likely that Castellini will boost salary all that much.

I could see the Reds stop-gapping 2B for a few months, hoping for league average while being good offensively elsewhere.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

Yes, they could.

18 months is a long, long time in prospect world, Beni. And Torreyes has hit like a demon since beginning pro ball. His closest competition? Mike Trout, who, 18 months ago, was playing in low A ball.

Speaking of 18 mopnths ago:

Devin Mesoraco was a bust, having played only 92 games in Sarasota.

8 of BA's top ten prospects were in A+ ball or lower.

2 of BA's top ten were still amateurs.

As to Rodriguez, the slash line of a league average 2B is less than impressive. A 700 OPS tops a 250-ish BA and a 400 slugging. Given the rest of this season in AA AND the beginning of next, do you really think Rodriguez would put up a 520 OPS in the majors? Realize, too, that the lowerst OPS of his career (season) is 250 points higher than that.

Meanwhile, Phillips will cost $12 million next season. If the Reds grab a TOR starter and/ or a monster cleanup bat for LF, where will that money come from? You can't deal Arroyo. Bruce and Cueto are likely to go anywhere. Salary bumps from arb eligibles are going to take up Cordero's cash. It's not likely that Castellini will boost salary all that much.

I could see the Reds stop-gapping 2B for a few months, hoping for league average while being good offensively elsewhere.

18 months is a long time in the prospect world. But...the jumps from A to AA to AAA to MLB are huge. To your point, look at H-Rod's numbers in AA compared to the rest of his career. Then consider that he has two more chasms to cross, and he hasn't even really gotten proper footing where he currently stands. Torreyes is a great prospect who many have high hopes for, but he is 5'5 and in low A ball. Penciling him into a big league lineup anytime in the next 24 months is dreamy at best, IMO. Not saying either guy can't get there at some point, but 2012 will not be the year either one of these guys is an above average 2B in Cincinnati.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Baseball]

The Reds org. know he is a great talent, no question.

BUT

It's a known fact that when he was with Dayton last year, Bakersfield this year, Carolina and even extended to all levels in Spring Training that he is one of the worst teammates to have in the organization attitude-wise. Think Milton Bradley when you think of this kid because that's the comparison he's drawing to other teams and scouts throughout the minor leagues.

It's become a problem with many in the organization and it will hold him back.

[Scrap Irony]

Link?

[icehole3]

Originally Posted by Baseball

The Reds org. know he is a great talent, no question.

BUT

It's a known fact that when he was with Dayton last year, Bakersfield this year, Carolina and even extended to all levels in Spring Training that he is one of the worst teammates to have in the organization attitude-wise. Think Milton Bradley when you think of this kid because that's the comparison he's drawing to other teams and scouts throughout the minor leagues.

It's become a problem with many in the organization and it will hold him back.

Ive never heard of any kid in the organization being like Milton Bradley, this is crazy talk

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by icehole3

Ive never heard of any kid in the organization being like Milton Bradley, this is crazy talk

As bad as Milton Bradley, yeah, it is probably crazy talk. But, there are some work ethic issues with HRod that have been out there for a while.

[Scrap Irony]

It's not held him back at all so far.

And, if he continues to hit as well as he has, it won't.

Talent trumps attitude. Always has. Always will.

[icehole3]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

As bad as Milton Bradley, yeah, it is probably crazy talk. But, there are some work ethic issues with HRod that have been out there for a while.

fair enough, just thought the Milton Bradley reference was way out there

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

It's not held him back at all so far.

And, if he continues to hit as well as he has, it won't.

Talent trumps attitude. Always has. Always will.

Except his issues tend to be that he doesn't care much about defense at all. So hitting talent with no defense could hold him back.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Except his issues tend to be that he doesn't care much about defense at all. So hitting talent with no defense could hold him back.

No poor defenders up the middle unless its in spot play a la Cairo. Above average should be the minimum for a starter. Its really what I'm trying to determine with H-Rod. Even if he hits, how huge will the drop from Phillips be on defense? Pitching staff is too fragile to handle a change from taking away hits to giving away outs.