What If Pujols...

[757690]

Pure Hypothetical so lay off the "this would never happen" replies.

I know this would never happen, but...

What if, because of his down year, coming off an injury, the clog of 1B at all the big market teams, and St. Louis deciding to rebuild, Pujols can't get any legitimate offers in the offseason?

What would you be willing to offer Pujols, in years and total $$$, to be a Red?

[Tom Servo]

A blank check and a dedication to play 3B.

[AtomicDumpling]

I would give Pujols a 51% ownership stake in the Reds. I would also let him be Player-Manager and General Manager. And then I would rename the stadium after him. I would not go so far as to rename the team the Cincinnati Pujols -- that would be ridiculous.

But seriously, the contract he gets will probably give him enough money to buy the Reds if he wants to.

[Ron Madden]

I'd love to have Albert Pujols.

In my lifetime the Reds have had just one player that compares to Pujols.

Johnny Bench arguably the best catcher in baseball history.

Albert Pujols arguably the best first baseman in baseball history.

Sadly in the reality of MLB today clubs like the Reds could never afford to keep and pay a player like Pujols and remain competitive.

[GAC]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

A blank check and a dedication to play 3B.

Other than the several starts at 3B this season - to try and pump more offense into the Cards lineup - he hasn't played 3B since 2002 (to make room for Rolen). And then there's that elbow.

The guy's a GG 1bman. I think one would be playing with fire to move him from 1B to 3B on a regular basis.

[buckeyenut]

I'd bring Pujols in, put him at 1B, send Votto to Toronto for Bautista, then deal Alonso for whatever I could get.

[GAC]

The money we'd have to pay a Pujols would severely hamstring this organization in multiple other areas.

[PuffyPig]

Pujols whas the majors 30rd best WAR this year.

His lack of walks is very telling, as his OBA has dropped about 100 points this year. And his walks have decreased rapidly as the season as worn on.

The first sign of Griffey regressing was his decreasing walks, as he had to start cheating by swinging earlier at pitches. Pujols is doing the same thing. He remains a big injury risk.

It will cost a fortune in money and years to sign Pujols. Let someone else make the mistake of signing who was the majors best player based on what he has does in the past.

He's still a very good player, but not likely at the top of the list anymore. Assuming so will cost some team dearly. I hope it's the Cards.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by PuffyPig

Pujols whas the majors 30rd best WAR this year.

His lack of walks is very telling, as his OBA has dropped about 100 points this year. And his walks have decreased rapidly as the season as worn on.

The first sign of Griffey regressing was his decreasing walks, as he had to start cheating by swinging earlier at pitches. Pujols is doing the same thing. He remains a big injury risk.

It will cost a fortune in money and years to sign Pujols. Let someone else make the mistake of signing who was the majors best player based on what he has does in the past.

He's still a very good player, but not likely at the top of the list anymore. Assuming so will cost some team dearly. I hope it's the Cards.

Excellent analysis. I concur.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Ron Madden

Johnny Bench arguably the best catcher in baseball history.

There's an argument to be made that he wasn't?

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by Dan

There's an argument to be made that he wasn't?

I have been gone for several weeks now do to real life issues but this thread caught my eye. I think an argument can be made for Ivan Rodriguez. Not only is his batting average better than Bench, Rodriguez is arguably the best defensive catcher in the history of the game. They played in different eras so the whole "who is better" argument is hard to determine. I also think that Gary Carter is overlooked as well.


As far as Pujols goes, Puffy is right to bring up some of those issues but I think you also have to weigh what has happened to offense on a whole in the past five years. Offense, baseball wide, continues to decline and it begs the question, is Pujols declining or is it just pitching continuing to become a dominant factor in the game. This could be the first year in a long time where the NL leader in home runs doesn't achieve a 40 home run season. Granted, home runs are not the end all when discussing the decline in offense league wide but it certainly is a stat of note. Also, I think what you have to take into account is that Pujols had a horrible two months at the beginning of the season but since June, he has hit to about his norm. I don't think one down year (or two bad months) is an indication that a player is starting to decline.

Also, I think one factor in Pujols not walking as much is that there is a lot of protection behind him with Holliday and Berkman, which is something he hasn't had since the 04 season. Pitchers are pitching to him more this season rather than intentionally walking him or pitching around him than in other years. I also think that Pujols would thrive even more in a hitters park like GABP so even if he is "declining", adjusting for ballpark he might do well.

Puffy you also make the mistake in comparing him with Griffey. Not only is Griffey not as good as a player as Pujols is (even if you take out all Griffey's years after the age of 30), you cannot take one set of injuries on a given player and apply them to another player as if it is almost the rule. Pujols does not play the highly athletic position of outfield like Griffey did nor does he have even half of the injury history of Griffey. In Pujols career, he has only spent three 15 day stints on the DL, including this year. Griffey had a couple of injuries, including a major injury in 95, before he even turned 30. Even taking this year into account, Pujols has yet to play in less than 140 games in his career, where as with Griffey, he failed to even reach that mark several times. Is Pujols worth 30 million? No. However I still think you will get good to great production with him for another five years especially if he went to a hitters ballpark like GABP, Fenway, or Yankee Stadium.

[kaldaniels]

This just in...

Mike is back from hiatus. He says Pujols isn't declining and objects to Bench being called the greatest catcher ever.

We missed you Mike.

[MikeThierry]

This just in...

Mike is back from hiatus. He says Pujols isn't declining and objects to Bench being called the greatest catcher ever.

We missed you Mike.

sigh.. you are putting words in my mouth. I never objected to saying Bench was the greatest at his position, I just don't think it is as close and shut case as Reds fans make it out to be. I think an argument for Ivan can be made. That was my only point. As much as a homer I am for the Cards, Pujols is not the greatest 1st baseman of all time, yet. That still belongs to Lou Gehrig and it will take quite an achievement from Pujols to surpass him.

Also, I never said that Pujols isn't declining. I was mainly disputing the Griffey comparison as the gold standard to judge a player in his 30's and there might be several other factors to why he is having an unusually down season. He might be declining, he might not be. I'm reserving judgment on that until at least next year when the contract talks have subsided and if he has another "down" year next year. Never said he wasn't declining though.

[GAC]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

As much as a homer I am for the Cards

There are a lot of homers on this forum too Mike. Your participation and input is valued and respected if you want my two cents.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by GAC

There are a lot of homers on this forum too Mike. Your participation and input is valued and respected if you want my two cents.

+1