2011 Bengals Discussion

[Redsfaithful]

Originally Posted by JaxRed

There is not doubt which is worse. The Bengals, there is no end in sight until people start making a stand, and force the NFL to do something. That's why I applaud Carson Palmer, for saying "enough is enough". And if you finish last I hope Andrew Luck does too.

There's no end in sight period, so there's really no point in making any kind of stand. The Bengals really aren't anything especially bad since Marvin was hired anyway, they're a pretty standard below average NFL team playing in one of the harder divisions. They don't deserve any kind of benefit of the doubt because of the totality of the last 20 years, I'm just saying the NFL isn't going to do anything based on the last 8.

Playing devil's advocate here a little, but the Bengals have been in contention more than the Reds since Marvin Lewis was hired.

[fearofpopvol1]

Originally Posted by KoryMac5

Bengals make a deal for S Taylor Mays according to ESPN. Hopefully Coyle can get something out of him.

I just saw this. I don't know if anything is wrong with him or not, but if not, the Bengals just made a good move.

[LoganBuck]

Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1

I just saw this. I don't know if anything is wrong with him or not, but if not, the Bengals just made a good move.

Taylor Mays is a traditional strong safety. Zimmer has had much success with that kind of player over the years. Most teams play the Tampa Two now, which requires two free safeties, Zimmer does not. I expect Mays to do well here. He isn't a guy who should be counted on to do a lot of coverage of receivers. Match him up on a TE, and let him play in the box against the run.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by George Foster

Honestly, I think the Bengals are worse. Al Davis really wants to win, and he's mad as heck when he doesn't. He just makes bad decisions. Brown could care less if he wins or not, it's all about the bottom line. He knows what it takes to win and refuses to do it. A perfect example of this is not trading Chad when you could of gotten a 1st round pick for him a season or 2 ago and not trading Palmer when you could of improved the team in a couple of positions. He would rather let both go and get nothing in return.

The Bengals have been fairly competitive during the Marvin Lewis time period. He has yet to win a playoff game but has made it to the playoffs twice. How quickly we forget that the Bengals were a Carson Palmer knee injury away from being a legit playoff team. Mike Brown is an awful owner but IMO Marvin has done a decent job with his limited resources. And lets be honest this is a rebuilding year. Its want many Bengals fans have been calling for over the past couple of seasons. Gone are the diva's and the declining QB. In are new exciting WR's and a TE along with a rookie QB. Its going to be a painful year, but hopefully one that brings about hope.

As for Al Davis IMO he is the worst owner in the league. Next season they don't have a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round pick. He has been running his team based upon the 40 yard dash for the past 5+ years. Pryor in the 3rd? Hewyard-Bay in the 1st? Russell with the 1st pick in the draft? Guy is awful at making decisions at this stage in his career.

[cincrazy]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

The Bengals have been fairly competitive during the Marvin Lewis time period. He has yet to win a playoff game but has made it to the playoffs twice. How quickly we forget that the Bengals were a Carson Palmer knee injury away from being a legit playoff team. Mike Brown is an awful owner but IMO Marvin has done a decent job with his limited resources. And lets be honest this is a rebuilding year. Its want many Bengals fans have been calling for over the past couple of seasons. Gone are the diva's and the declining QB. In are new exciting WR's and a TE along with a rookie QB. Its going to be a painful year, but hopefully one that brings about hope.

As for Al Davis IMO he is the worst owner in the league. Next season they don't have a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round pick. He has been running his team based upon the 40 yard dash for the past 5+ years. Pryor in the 3rd? Hewyard-Bay in the 1st? Russell with the 1st pick in the draft? Guy is awful at making decisions at this stage in his career.

Davis has clearly lost touch with reality, but for several years he was arguably the best owner in the game. Just win, baby. Mike Brown? Just turn a profit, baby. He's a disgrace and has no business owning a football team.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by JaxRed

Carson's not a quitter. Carson is making a stand for all of you.

I'm not seeing it as anymore than the rich kid taking his ball and going home because he doesn't agree with Sugar Daddy. That's lame, not courageous.

Actually CP did ME a favor, because watching him last year was brutal.

[Sea Ray]

What exactly is Carson's beef with Mike Brown? Last year MB went out of his way to give Carson weapons such as Gresham, Shipley and at Carson's request, TO. I'm sure having brother Jordan on the team was also something MB did to appease Carson. The only thing I can think of is Carson is not pleased with Marvin, but no NFL team can allow the QB to fire/hire head coaches. Carson's quitting put the team in a position to to do what's not in their best interests and I don't blame them at all for sticking it to him. Carson should have known that this was not going to work with MB.

[Redsfaithful]

I actually thought much of Carson's complaint was with Chad and Bratkowski, but the Bengals got rid of both and it didn't fix things, so I'm not entirely sure anymore. It has to be core issues with how the team is run cheaply, scouting, facilities, etc. Or maybe it's an issue with Marvin I guess, but I have a hard time seeing that as being bad enough to retire.

[Redsfaithful]

Also don't forget the rumors that Carson's wife hated Cincinnati and wanted him to get traded to the west coast or retire, those were all over the place.

[KoryMac5]

Carson really hasn't given any reason publically for wanting out, he hasn't talked much at all. I would think it has more to do with having kids and a wife and wanting to get back to the West Coast to be close to family.

This whole deal has been handled poorly by both sides from the start. It's too bad they couldn't have reached some agreement where Carson would play this season and be dealt afterwards. I remember Boomer doing that when he wanted out.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by KoryMac5

This whole deal has been handled poorly by both sides from the start. It's too bad they couldn't have reached some agreement where Carson would play this season and be dealt afterwards. I remember Boomer doing that when he wanted out.

That was the formula for all kinds of disgruntled Bengals such as Pickens, Dillon and as you say, Boomer. If Carson won't even show up for work, MB will screw him.

[Oxilon]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

That was the formula for all kinds of disgruntled Bengals such as Pickens, Dillon and as you say, Boomer. If Carson won't even show up for work, MB will screw him.

Bolded is key. If this were some anomaly, I could blame Carson Palmer and Mike Brown. But seeing how this is nothing new, and there have been many players in the past who have demanded out, I cannot blame Palmer for this disaster. Mike Brown has been the only constant since the Bungleness began back in the early 90's. Yeah, I may be disappointed Carson Palmer opted out, but so be it.

On a somewhat related note, it's unbelievable to me that our "GM" won't trade him, even at the expense the team. What a stubborn, foolish man. I've seen 3rd graders act more responsible.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Oxilon

Bolded is key. If this were some anomaly, I could blame Carson Palmer and Mike Brown. But seeing how this is nothing new, and there have been many players in the past who have demanded out, I cannot blame Palmer for this disaster. Mike Brown has been the only constant since the Bungleness began back in the early 90's. Yeah, I may be disappointed Carson Palmer opted out, but so be it.

On a somewhat related note, it's unbelievable to me that our "GM" won't trade him, even at the expense the team. What a stubborn, foolish man. I've seen 3rd graders act more responsible.

But those guys didn't handle it like Palmer did. They all showed up eventually. Palmer would have been much smarter to show up and play all the while telling MB privately that he wants out. That formula worked for the others. Palmer's strategy will not work.

Most NFL teams, will refuse to recognize any players contract grievances until the player agrees to report.

Palmer has forced this team to assume an all or nothing stance MB has chosen nothing...for now. He still has 4 yrs to trade him

[paintmered]

Carson's not even the first Bengal to retire instead of play. Barry Foster did it in the 90s.

[Danny Serafini]

Originally Posted by paintmered

Carson's not even the first Bengal to retire instead of play. Barry Foster did it in the 90s.

Barry Foster was a Bengal for all of two days, and injured as well. Hardly a similar circumstance.