Closer for 2012

[marcshoe]

If there's a thread already there, I'm sorry; I couldn't find it.

What do you think the Reds should do as far as the closer role goes in 2012? I'm fairly opposed to expending resources on this when the rotation (and I believe left field) needs an upgrade. Personally, I might try to see if Cordero would extend cheap for a year and work Arredondo into the slot. If he won't (and I wouldn't if I were him; he could get more than he's worth on the market) I'd hold auditions in the spring rather than spending for a closer.

But Chapman goes in the rotation. Period.

Any thoughts?

[RedsManRick]

Volquez. He can come in, throw 96mph for 25 pitches and be done. I know it's counter intuitive given his 1st inning struggles, but I'd give it a try.

[hebroncougar]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

Volquez. He can come in, throw 96mph for 25 pitches and be done. I know it's counter intuitive given his 1st inning struggles, but I'd give it a try.

I'd try it starting about 3 days from now. September should be all about auditions.

[RedsManRick]

Originally Posted by hebroncougar

I'd try it starting about 3 days from now. September should be all about auditions.

My thoughts exactly.

[Tom Servo]

If only LeCure weren't so prone to the longball, I would heavily consider him. He doesn't have the best stuff in the world but he seems to have the "go after them and get it done" mentality in whatever role (starter, long-man, reliever) they put him in.

[Guacarock]

Sign me up for the Scrap Irony plan, calling for the Reds to target the Giants' Sergio Romo as our next closer. Scrap Irony actually proposed that we work a blockbuster with the Giants over the winter, trading Brandon Phillips and Drew Stubbs for Romo, Freddy Sanchez and Eric Surkamp.

Regardless of whether we pursue that particular mega-deal, we ought to set our sights on Romo. He's definitely closer material with a 1.60 ERA this season, 56 strikeouts in 39.1 IP and only two home runs allowed over that span. If he wasn't operating under the shadow of Brian Wilson, we'd all be hearing a lot more about him.

The Giants are notoriously tightfisted about trading away arms, but given their offensive collapse this season, they're going to need to back off that hardline stance. Seems like we ought to be able to pry away Romo, at least. He's not a starter, or their closer, so if we dangle the right bat(s) in the right deal, he could be our successor to Cordero.

He's doubly appealing because he would be a cheap solution to this problem, and his arrival would allow the Reds to seriously entertain moving Chapman back into the rotation, thus potentially helping us to shore up another one of our weaknesses. If Chapman proves he can't pitch deep into games, no sweat. He can then go back to the pen to set up for Romo or compete for the closer's job himself. I'm not going to argue Chapman has to be a starter to be an effective pitcher for us, only that we have enough invested in him to give it a try and see where that leads.

[fearofpopvol1]

My guess is Chapman ends up in the closer spot

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Guacarock

Sign me up for the Scrap Irony plan, calling for the Reds to target the Giants' Sergio Romo as our next closer. Scrap Irony actually proposed that we work a blockbuster with the Giants over the winter, trading Brandon Phillips and Drew Stubbs for Romo, Freddy Sanchez and Eric Surkamp.

Regardless of whether we pursue that particular mega-deal, we ought to set our sights on Romo. He's definitely closer material with a 1.60 ERA this season, 56 strikeouts in 39.1 IP and only two home runs allowed over that span. If he wasn't operating under the shadow of Brian Wilson, we'd all be hearing a lot more about him.

The Giants are notoriously tightfisted about trading away arms, but given their offensive collapse this season, they're going to need to back off that hardline stance. Seems like we ought to be able to pry away Romo, at least. He's not a starter, or their closer, so if we dangle the right bat(s) in the right deal, he could be our successor to Cordero.

He's doubly appealing because he would be a cheap solution to this problem, and his arrival would allow the Reds to seriously entertain moving Chapman back into the rotation, thus potentially helping us to shore up another one of our weaknesses. If Chapman proves he can't pitch deep into games, no sweat. He can then go back to the pen to set up for Romo or compete for the closer's job himself. I'm not going to argue Chapman has to be a starter to be an effective pitcher for us, only that we have enough invested in him to give it a try and see where that leads.

I am not opposed to this type of plan. Going for a current set up type of reliever who is dominant, but doesn't have "saves" so won't be asking for or be offered "saves" money to close. While I am sure there are some guys who couldn't handle the pressure of closing, I also feel its a major minority of relievers who fall into that category.

[Wheelhouse]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

Volquez. He can come in, throw 96mph for 25 pitches and be done. I know it's counter intuitive given his 1st inning struggles, but I'd give it a try.

I think that's a brilliant idea--I think his first inning struggles come from being a little too loose mentally in the 1st. Bring him in in a pressure situation.

[Roy Tucker]

Originally Posted by hebroncougar

I'd try it starting about 3 days from now. September should be all about auditions.

Intriguing to put Volquez in the closer spot. It would either be spectacularly good or train-wreck bad. I'd agree to give him a tryout.

But it won't happen. Cordero is the 2011 closer, period, end of story. Word would have to come from on high to tell Dusty something other than that.

[_Sir_Charles_]

I know this won't be popular here, but I'd personally be STUNNED if the Reds don't re-do Cordero's contract and extend him. I know he's had his struggles, but he's also gotten the job done for the majority of his tenure here. The biggest complaint I've seen/heard about Cordero was the money we signed him for. If it's for a much smaller amount...would there be as much complaining? Especially since if we have a closer for next year it means Chapman becomes a starter. I personally don't like any of the current closer options on the club outside or Cordero. So if we don't resign him...I want to get somebody else from the outside. No Chapman, Burton, Masset, Volquez, Arroyo, etc. (although I must admit, the Arroyo idea is intriguing)

[mattfeet]

^^Agreed. Id LOVE to re-sign Cordero for a 2yr/12-14mil deal. I think that's fair for both parties.

-Matt

[nate]

Originally Posted by mattfeet

^^Agreed. Id LOVE to re-sign Cordero for a 2yr/12-14mil deal. I think that's fair for both parties.

-Matt

As long as one of the parties is the Cardinals or Cubs and the other Cordero, I'm cool.

Cordero's K/9 this season is over 3 less than his career and nearly 2 less than last season. His BB/9 is better (he's almost "Volquez-like" in this regard) and he's kept the ball in the park. However, he's also enjoyed a .205 BABIP against vs. a career .295 mark. While a 4.03 FIP is probably averageish, me, myself, personally would not pay $6-7 XXL for that kind of performance.

I'd go with a "closer" committee, myself. Actually, if the Reds ask me to manage in the next 15 minutes, I wouldn't even have a closer. I tell them there are no pre-defined roles and we'll strictly go on situations while chewing on an unlit, half-smoked cigar.

I'll have the cigar, not them...they're athletes, I'm the manager.

[Scrap Irony]

I want no part of Cordero as closer. He's had a fine season and a great career. Let him finish it somewhere else.

[RedsManRick]

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

I want no part of Cordero as closer. He's had a fine season and a great career. Let him finish it somewhere else.

Exactly. There are 135 qualified relievers in MLB this year. Cordero is solidly below average. Here's how the Reds relievers rate:

		IP	ERA	FIP	xFIP	xFIP Rank
Bill Bray	43.0	2.72	2.88	4.13	32
Aroldis Chapman 41.2	3.89	3.26	3.26	NA (just missed the cut)
Nick Masset	63.1	3.98	3.49	3.77	65
Sam LeCure	47.2	3.21	3.92	3.56	90
Coco Cordero	60.2	2.37	4.03	3.97	97
Jose Arredondo	44.2	3.22	4.21	4.35	110
Logan Ondrusek	54.2	2.80	4.28	4.39	114

Cordero has a .205 BABIP this year. If he weren't already a closer, nobody would think of making him one. In fact, he's the kind of guy that would be fighting for a middle relief job with most teams. If he weren't already a Red, nobody would be arguing that we should pursue him in FA.

If Cordero were special, I could understand an argument for wanting to pay him. But he's not. Paying good money for mediocre relievers is about the most wasteful thing a team can do. Thanks for your service Fransisco. I'm sure you're a great dude. But the Reds can't afford to spend money on a brand when the production is just mediocre.