Around 18% of the 2012 Payroll

[IWasBornInCincy]

Will be tied up in 2 players who actually are not MLB caliber. $6.5 Mill for Rolen and $7 Million for Arroyo. That is tough for a team with a 75-80 M payroll to stomach.

[Vottomatic]

Arroyo makes $12M in '12 according to Cot's.

This argument is neverending.

If Rolen is healthy and returns to form with a respectable offensive output, factor in his GG defense and leadership, and he'll be worth every bit of $7M.

If Arroyo pitches like 2009 & 2010........both seasons sub-4.00 e.r.a.'s with 15 to 17 wins, then he is worth it too.

Both players have track records that leave open the possibility they could return to form. And Arroyo suffered the lingering effects of Mono all season, and Rolen wasn't healthy.

Never say never.

[The DARK]

It certainly could be worse. We'll have far less if any going towards Cordero, and once upon a time Harang was making 12 million for even worse production than what Arroyo gave us this season. Arroyo's history says that he's likely to bounce back, and Rolen is only one injury-filled season removed from being a gold glover, all-star, and unanimous team leader. I'd rather have that than the 18 million that the Astros have sunk into Carlos Lee for this season.

[brm7675]

Originally Posted by IWasBornInCincy

Will be tied up in 2 players who actually are not MLB caliber. $6.5 Mill for Rolen and $7 Million for Arroyo. That is tough for a team with a 75-80 M payroll to stomach.

Not MLB caliber? Really and your basis for that call is what?

[IWasBornInCincy]

Arroyo makes 7 Mill next year...not 12.

What classifies Rolen/Arroyo as non MLB caliber players?


Well, in Rolens last 450 At bats dating to the ASB of 2010...Rolen is hitting .249 with a .715 OPS, 8 Homers and 56 RBI.

That is hiorrible.


Arroyo has given up more HOmers than anyone in the game. HOw do you just ignore this?

[texasdave]

Both players have track records that leave open the possibility they could return to form.

Pretty much 2012 in a nutshell. If they both bounce strong the Reds will contend. If they both reprise their 2011 seasons the Reds will struggle. How these two perform next season is a fairly good litmus test of things to come.

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by IWasBornInCincy

Arroyo makes 7 Mill next year...not 12.

Again, not according to Cot's (click on the following link): https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?...0E&output=html

What classifies Rolen/Arroyo as non MLB caliber players?


Well, in Rolens last 450 At bats dating to the ASB of 2010...Rolen is hitting .249 with a .715 OPS, 8 Homers and 56 RBI.

That is hiorrible.

In David Wright's last 380 at bats, he's hitting .255 with a .755 OPS, 14 Homers and 59 rbi. And he's making $14 million. So what's your point?

Oh yeah, both guys have been injured alot in that time span. But we won't bring that astounding fact into the argument. Hmmm.

Arroyo has given up more HOmers than anyone in the game. HOw do you just ignore this?

We ignore this pretty much the same way you ignore the fact that Bronson had lingering effects from mononucleosis all season. In 2009 and 2010 he won 15+ games and had sub-4.00 e.r.a.'s. But let's not bring facts into the argument.

[brm7675]

Originally Posted by IWasBornInCincy

Arroyo makes 7 Mill next year...not 12.

What classifies Rolen/Arroyo as non MLB caliber players?


Well, in Rolens last 450 At bats dating to the ASB of 2010...Rolen is hitting .249 with a .715 OPS, 8 Homers and 56 RBI.

That is hiorrible.


Arroyo has given up more HOmers than anyone in the game. HOw do you just ignore this?

Neither were 100% healthy, when healthy look at their numbers. Unlike you I understand the importance of health when it comes to playing sports....I guess you don't. What was Bronson's numbers in 2010 and 2009 when he was healthy? How about Rolen?

[jwmann2]

Cutting lose Cordero and spreading that money on a new bullpen would be great. I like Chapman as a closer. Can just come in an throw hard fastballs, intimidating and would justify his salary. Closers make a lot of money. I'm not the GM nor am I a scout.

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by jwmann2

I'm not the GM nor am I a scout.

Darn. I heard Mike Brown was looking for a GM or a scout.

[brm7675]

Originally Posted by jwmann2

Cutting lose Cordero and spreading that money on a new bullpen would be great. I like Chapman as a closer. Can just come in an throw hard fastballs, intimidating and would justify his salary. Closers make a lot of money. I'm not the GM nor am I a scout.

I would be shocked if Cordero isn't back next year...