2011 Bengals Discussion

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by traderumor

This is only partially true. There is still a dirty little secret that gets very little publicity about money some NFL franchises generate for various reasons that is off-the-books for salary cap purposes, but is still used to lure free agents. The funny part of it is that two orgs., Washington and Dallas, that I know of who have these types of resources are struggling to field a playoff team, while two teams in "small" markets, such as Buffalo and Cincinnati, figure out how to field playoff teams in this environment. The only press this issue got that I've seen was when Brown and Ralph Wilson got out of step with the ownership cartel and started talking about this issue and voted against something a few years ago.

But so many Bengals fans can't let go of the pre-Marvin Bengals that they can't see that this franchise is no more dysfunctional than all but a few NFL orgs.

I think with each additional coach Mike loses some power and the coach gains some. I think you saw Marvin get quite a bit more power this past off season when he inked a new deal than he had before. I don't particullary think Marvin is a great coach, however I do think he is a NFL caliber head coach. I really think there are precious few front offices that set themselves apart from the rest. Other than those organizations (Steelers and Pats come to mind) the rest of the teams success is based upon good fortune and luck in landing a franchise QB. I look at the Colts this season and realize how valuable Manning is to that organization.

I wish Mike Brown were't the owner of the Begals. I think he has been the laughingstock of the league for the better half of two decades. But I also think that since the arrival of Marvin they havn't had those head scratching moves.

[CTA513]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

It's a pre-season game for him against players in mid season form.

Dont think there's much to gloat about here.

Putting him in after getting down 21-0 didn't help the situation.
It pretty much meant he would have to throw after he hasn't played since game #16 of last season and just joined the Raiders less than a week ago.

[redsfandan]

Originally Posted by CTA513

Putting him in after getting down 21-0 didn't help the situation.
It pretty much meant he would have to throw after he hasn't played since game #16 of last season and just joined the Raiders less than a week ago.

It didn't make it worse either. Since they were already losing anyway why not let him get his feet wet. Now he's got 2 weeks to become more familiar with his new receivers and learn more of the playbook before a home game vs Denver and then an away game vs San Diego. Those 2 games will mean alot more than the (almost) 2 quarters he played vs KC.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by redsfandan

It didn't make it worse either. Since they were already losing anyway why not let him get his feet wet. Now he's got 2 weeks to become more familiar with his new receivers and learn more of the playbook before a home game vs Denver and then an away game vs San Diego. Those 2 games will mean alot more than the (almost) 2 quarters he played vs KC.

Carson pretty much played his first preseason game. It usually takes a few games into the season for a player to hit in season form. It will take Carson another 4 games to get back to his 2011 Bengals form, which isn't anything to write home about. You would have thought that playing the Chiefs, bye, Broncos would have been a great time to get him into the offense and also win both games. If you consider yourself a playoff team you can't lose home games to the Chiefs.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by Hillsdale87

One difference is that the playing field is far more level in football. It's one thing in baseball when your limited by your market and payroll limitations keep you from consistently competing. It's still frustrating, but I think fans are a little more understanding. In football though, fans see Mike Brown as the cheapest owner in the game not due to market limitations, but his own stubbornness and greed. It's true that the Bengals have been average, but he refuses to invest what is necessary to push them beyond that.

I think this is the general assumption, but teams like the Twins, Devil Rays, and Diamondbacks have proven that you can in fact compete with teams who have much higher payrolls. Certainly teams like the Yankees and Red Sox will always have an advantage, but 1) A team with nearly the lowest payroll has competed with them for the past 3-4 years, and 2) Neither of those teams plays in the Reds division.
While St. Louis and Chicago certainly have an advantage with a higher payroll, their payroll advantage isn't so overwhelming that the Reds should not be expected to compete.

[KoryMac5]

While it was a preseason game for Carson, the problems that dogged him the last few seasons are still there. He gets nothing on the ball anymore, no zip to his passes, and they hang out there. Worst advice he ever got was not having TJ surgery for his elbow.

[medford]

Preseason game? OK, I get that to an extent, but then I caught some commentary on NBC's football night in America. On his pick 6, they basically broke down the coverage, how Carson's first read should have been on the safety, which would have clearly told him the corner would jump any short route. Carson didn't even check the safety and it was returned for the pick 6, similar to what happened so many times the last couple of seasons in cincy. Now if you want to make the argument that its like a "preseason" game for him, fine, but the consensus amongst the NFL veterans and coaches was that coverage is a basic QB check, something anyone fresh out of HS football should be able to make and adjust to, let alone a type flight college program and numerous seasons in the NFL.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by KoryMac5

While it was a preseason game for Carson, the problems that dogged him the last few seasons are still there. He gets nothing on the ball anymore, no zip to his passes, and they hang out there. Worst advice he ever got was not having TJ surgery for his elbow.

Agreed, part of the pick six problem(I prefer Bill Simmon's term Touchdown After INT) is that on passes in the flat, the ball just gives a safety or a corner too much time to cut in front.

[Stray]

One of his picks was off of his back foot when they blitzed him. We've seen that a lot. And yeah, he was baited into that pick 6, we've also seen a lot of that.

The bad timing on outs and that stuff can be attributed to his lack of time there, but two of those picks were problems he's been having for a few years now.

[Vottomatic]

All I know is that #1 pick in 2013 is looking more like a #2 pick after watching Carson.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

All I know is that #1 pick in 2013 is looking more like a #2 pick after watching Carson.

Which is fine. I'll accept that 2013 is a 2nd rd pick . I want the 2012 pick to be as high as possible

[medford]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Which is fine. I'll accept that 2013 is a 2nd rd pick . I want the 2012 pick to be as high as possible

I'd be perfectly fine w/ the #1 pick in the 2nd round in 2013, if the 2012 pick was a top 10 pick. I guess the question is, how realistic is that w/o a complete collapse?

Denver W
@ San Diego L
@ Minny ?
Chicago ?
@ Miami W
@ Green Bay L
Detroit ?
@ KC ?
San Diego L

that's 2 wins, 3 losses and 4 ?s. @ Minny kind of feels like a win, but if AP can get losse and/or Ponder continues to play like he did yesterday, that's going to be a tough one to win on the road. Chicago feels like a loss to me, though it seems like you never know what you're getting with that group. Detroit also feels like a loss, but they can be beat if you take it right to their defense on the run, an area that Oakland plays well. @ KC feels like a win, but after yesterday, maybe not so much.

So if I split the ?s, and add in the 4-3 record to date, that puts them at 8-8, which would probably net the Bengals a pick around the 16-18 hole of next season's draft, perhaps depending on tie breakers.

I think I'd take that right now and not look back as a Bengals fan. With the suck for Luck sweepstakes running rampant, its hard to imagine Oakland not winning at least 2-3 more games at a minimum. Of course, if they do manage to make the playoffs, and the Bengals don't, I'll be hoping like heck they reach the AFC championship game, then the wheels completely blow off. The #1 overall pick in 2013 wouldn't be so bad, would it?

[Sea Ray]

I'm not expecting a top ten pick or a #1 in the 2nd rd in 2013. I'd love for the Raiders to give us a 1st rd pick ahead of our own in April. I don't see them pulling it together to get to the AFC championship game so why be disappointed? Let's just root for them to lose. Once you accept that they're not going to the AFC championship game, every loss helps us. I wouldn't chalk up Denver as a win yet. They would not have beaten Denver yesterday

[medford]

Not expecting it either, but its always fun to dream when at the end of the day, any pick they would have got in exchange for Palmer at this point was a plus in my mind.

[The Operator]

I don't think I've seen this posted here already so thought I'd share. AJ and Dalton were miked up for the Colts game:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-...module=HP11_cp

Dalton's leadership skills are just off the chart. Carson had none of those qualities. A stoic expression while standing as stiff as a statue on the sidelines was all you got from him. That, or the occasional screaming match with Chad. Such a refreshing change.