Larussa Retiring

[Slyder]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

It also amazes me the "outrage" on this forum over the PED use under LaRussa when the Reds current manager has some real creditability issues in this department. If you all are going to be fair about it, call for Dusty Baker's head as well.

I've always felt that both Dusty and LaRussa were overrated choke artists. LaRussa got his act together in the playoffs lately but to have by far 3 of the better teams and choke in the series twice in the late 80s and 90(Gibby's shot heard round the world, and getting not just beat but SWEPT by some upstarts in the Queen City). Something has to give. Not to mention didn't he or a bunch of his A's players start the all too familiar cry fest afterwards with "the better team didn't win" *pull out a tissue* or something like that?

I've long since thought that both won on the west coast by letting the inmates run the assylum and act in shock when accusations of the stars arose as if they hadn't spent a single day in the locker room. Whether this year was a return to form, luck, or Mac bringing the "stuff" I don't know.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by Slyder

I've always felt that both Dusty and LaRussa were overrated choke artists. LaRussa got his act together in the playoffs lately but to have by far 3 of the better teams and choke in the series twice in the late 80s and 90(Gibby's shot heard round the world, and getting not just beat but SWEPT by some upstarts in the Queen City). Something has to give. Not to mention didn't he or a bunch of his A's players start the all too familiar cry fest afterwards with "the better team didn't win" *pull out a tissue* or something like that?

I've long since thought that both won on the west coast by letting the inmates run the assylum and act in shock when accusations of the stars arose as if they hadn't spent a single day in the locker room. Whether this year was a return to form, luck, or Mac bringing the "stuff" I don't know.

Its not like it is easy to win a World Series, especially in the era of the Wild Card. Winning half of the World Series that he has been too certainly shouldn't be looked down upon. He had some good teams but in playoff baseball, anything can happen. The 04 Cardinals were one of the most dominant teams of the 2000's but just ran into a Red Sox team that looked like a team of destiny. I don't think any NL team could have beat that Red Sox team the way it was playing.

[MikeThierry]

By the way, I think this article points out one of the reasons why LaRussa is not liked by a lot of people. His friendship with one of the most despicable, disgusting, and horrible figures in North American sports almost makes me not like TLR that much:

http://www.nesn.com/2011/10/bill-bel...tion-of-g.html

[Ron Madden]

Originally Posted by RBA

Sad. An End of an Era.



The Juicing Era where the manager turns a blind eye.

Ya mean like when Dusty Baker Managed Barry Bonds in San Francisco and Sammy Sosa in Chicago?

[GAC]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

If you are going to hold LaRussa to these ridiculous standards, no manager in the steroid era deserves to go into the HOF, including Cox and Torre. This was a baseball wide issue not just relegated to one or two managers.

I fully agree. There's a lot people can go after LaRussa for, as far as character and personality; but to try and throw this at him is pretty petty and way off base.

I've come to realize that throughout history, a vast majority of those that succeeded in baseball, and sports in general, whether a player or manager (coach), that are identified as winners, driven competitors that winning at all costs is what matters most, weren't the most "likable" people. And that's putting it mildly. All that matters is the results (and championships).

And LaRussa was no exception.

To those of us who are "olders" Red fans.... what about Tommy Lasorda?

And from the football side? How about guys like Vince Lombardi, Woody Hayes, and especially Paul Brown?

[oneupper]

The thread says LaRussa, not Baker or Cox or anyone else.
Was TLR "willfully blind" to rampant PED use on his teams? Hard to say no.
Was he an "enabler" for PED use? Almost impossible to tell. My gut feeling says yes.

The same could be true for Baker, but this thread is not about him.
I dislike these "yeah Hitler was bad, but Genghis Khan was worse" arguments.

LaRussa is the product of an era that needs to end.

[RBA]

Originally Posted by Ron Madden

Ya mean like when Dusty Baker Managed Barry Bonds in San Francisco and Sammy Sosa in Chicago?

Exactly. Dusty should be gone too.

[redsmetz]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

It also amazes me the "outrage" on this forum over the PED use under LaRussa when the Reds current manager has some real creditability issues in this department. If you all are going to be fair about it, call for Dusty Baker's head as well.

That's sort of a way of life around these parts, isn't it?

[Sea Ray]

If this thread is about LaRussa's character then it's only fair to include the great work he's done for animals

http://www.arf.net/

[marcshoe]

Since it seemingly has to be said, I also don't believe that Dusty Baker should go into the Hall of Fame before Barry Bonds.

Or Bobby Bonds, for that matter. Or Ward Bond. Or Gary Ward.

[RBA]

Originally Posted by tixe

Since it seemingly has to be said, I also don't believe that Dusty Baker should go into the Hall of Fame before Barry Bonds.

Or Bobby Bonds, for that matter. Or Ward Bond. Or Gary Ward.

[CySeymour]

Originally Posted by tixe

Since it seemingly has to be said, I also don't believe that Dusty Baker should go into the Hall of Fame before Barry Bonds.

Or Bobby Bonds, for that matter. Or Ward Bond. Or Gary Ward.

What about Ward Cleaver?

[Matt700wlw]

Ward Burton? Burt Ward?

[George Anderson]

Maybe I am overreacting but couldn't LaRussa of waited a week or so before announcing his decision?? It seems like all the attention, focus and glory of the Cards winning the WS is being over shadowed by him retiring.

But then again, that is LaRussa.

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by 757690

To be honest, if you're not voting for guys because you think they used steroids, then you can't vote for LaRussa either.

Not sure I get the logic here.
Hyptothetical: What if we found out tommorrow that Dibble used steriods?
Should that hurt Pinella's chances of getting into the HOF?

The owners new that steriods were being used, and enabled it because the HR records made everyone richer. The owners did nothing concrete about roid abuse until they were pretty much forced to.

Guys like LaRussa, Towers, Beane, Epstein, etc should not take the fall because the owners created an environment that caused roid abuse to flourish.