Incredible ugliness at Penn State

[Tadasimha]

College football has become so huge that the coaches, staff and players assume they are somehow not subject to the law. Not just PSU and Paterno but ALL of them have become these bloated entities that think it's all about them and the rest of the world isn't important. Imagine the public outrage if this had been a major corporation: people would be selling stock and boycotting products.

I can only hope that this starts the backlash that college football (and college sports in general, imho) deserves and we see the ratings drop, the money go away and people stop caring more about football than education.

Doubt it will happen, though.

[Roy Tucker]

Grand jury report

http://s3.documentcloud.org/document...ury-report.pdf

In a court of law, Paterno is blameless. An assistant football coach was engaged in an illegal sexual act in the football facilities and that act was winessed by another assistant football coach. That coach told Paterno and Paterno reported it up the management food chain. It was the food chain that lied and obfuscated and killed the story.

But this all happened under the umbrella of the football program (the word "football" appears a lot in the above paragraph). And Paterno is the head of that program. It's difficult to believe that he didn't know this incident had gotten stonewalled and squashed. And that's where I have issues with him.

Like I tell my kids, real life moral choices aren't good vs. evil. It's usually doing good vs. doing nothing. It's often easiest to avert your eyes and pretend you didn't see it. Or expect someone else to do something. Paterno did nothing. And I think that was a bad choice. Particularly when he posits himself as a very moral guy. It's his program and he needed to make sure the right thing happened. And he didn't.

[George Anderson]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

I got the impression that Sandusky was not allowed to do that:

The reality is Sandusky should have been banned from campus himself. Paterno has more control than anyone at PSU and if he wanted someone banned then Sandusky would have been banned. It is bad enough Paterno didn't push harder for an investigation but to let Sandusky still lurk around the campus is insane.

[Puffy]

Originally Posted by George Anderson

For years during the football season Paterno spent more time with Sandusky than he did with his own wife. Paterno being around this guy as much as he had been had to have suspicion of his behavior.

I am sorry to be rude about this - but give me a freakin break!

How many instances over the years have wifes of serial killers or pedophiles not known what was going on. And now you want to say that a football coach who spends time around another football coach and 18-23 year olds (who Sandusky was not attracted do as the pervert liked 8-12 year old boys) is supposed to have been suspicious because he hung out with him???? Where is the outrage at Sandusky's 6 adopted children then? They had to of known their father was a pedophile. Or Sandusky's wife - she had to of known and never did anything! Or Sandusky's parents - they spent more time with him than Paterno and they never reported him either. For shame!

Let's be clear - the only moral outrage Paterno deserves is that rumors were out there since about 1998. Then Grad Assistant comes to Paterno and gives instance. That's where Paterno needed to be more proactive - when rumor became reality. On one hand I clearly see Sea Ray's point. Paterno going to police was only as strong as Grad Assistant going with him. If Paterno went to police and Grad Assistant refused there is nothing, I repeat nothing, police could do about this. They cannot (and any police officer on here can either confirm or deny this) do anything based on third party report with no witness. On other hand, this pervert was preying on young boys and Paterno had well founded evidence. Morally he needed to protect those boys.

So I see both sides of argument. And after letting sit in for 24 hours I am now more in latter camp. Morally he needed to do more.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

I don't see Joe Paterno as the bad guy in all of this. He's paid to coach football. He's not supposed to know how to handle a sexual abuse case. He reported it to higher authorities and that's all I'd ask of him. This incident had very little to do with him except that it happened to occur in the showers that his team uses during the season. If this guy had chosen lacross showers to abuse kids would the lacross coach be drilled for not reporting it?

Paterno had very little to report to police. He didn't see anything. It was all heresay. The grad asst technically is the only one who could testify about this since he's the only one who could attest to what happened.

Ideally the University officials should have told the grad asst that they are going to report on it but it was ultimately up to the grad asst to cooperate with police.

We can't expect a 75 yr old ball coach to know the protocol for dealing with this. Paterno deserves better after all he's done to end his career like this.

If Paterno never saw the guy again, I could be on your side about this. But he was around campus, with children, for years following the original report. To suggest that Paterno didn't see him around campus, and he was reportedly on campus as recently as last week, is a big red flag that "no one did anything about what was told to me" and that you need to then go a step further and confront the person or go to the police. Period. End of discussion. To do anything less is cowardly and despicable.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

If Paterno never saw the guy again, I could be on your side about this. But he was around campus, with children, for years following the original report. To suggest that Paterno didn't see him around campus, and he was reportedly on campus as recently as last week, is a big red flag that "no one did anything about what was told to me" and that you need to then go a step further and confront the person or go to the police. Period. End of discussion. To do anything less is cowardly and despicable.

When did Pres Spanier ban him from campus?

[George Anderson]

Originally Posted by Puffy

I am sorry to be rude about this - but give me a freakin break!

How many instances over the years have wifes of serial killers or pedophiles not known what was going on. And now you want to say that a football coach who spends time around another football coach and 18-23 year olds (who Sandusky was not attracted do as the pervert liked 8-12 year old boys) is supposed to have been suspicious because he hung out with him???? Where is the outrage at Sandusky's 6 adopted children then? They had to of known their father was a pedophile. Or Sandusky's wife - she had to of known and never did anything! Or Sandusky's parents - they spent more time with him than Paterno and they never reported him either. For shame!

.

Sandusky numerous times had sexual relations in his home with the boys while his wife was there. You are kidding yourself if you don't think she knew. I can see her saying "I wonder where Jerry is??" "Oh he must be downstairs sleeping with his 10 year old friend" I guess she had no cause for concern there.

When I was growing up there were 3 individuals that were eventually convicted of child molestation. When all 3 were convicted no one and I mean no one was suprised. Child molesters as a whole from my experiences do a very poor job of hiding their ways.

[Razor Shines]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

I don't see Joe Paterno as the bad guy in all of this. He's paid to coach football. He's not supposed to know how to handle a sexual abuse case. He reported it to higher authorities and that's all I'd ask of him. This incident had very little to do with him except that it happened to occur in the showers that his team uses during the season. If this guy had chosen lacross showers to abuse kids would the lacross coach be drilled for not reporting it?

Paterno had very little to report to police. He didn't see anything. It was all heresay. The grad asst technically is the only one who could testify about this since he's the only one who could attest to what happened.

Ideally the University officials should have told the grad asst that they are going to report on it but it was ultimately up to the grad asst to cooperate with police.

We can't expect a 75 yr old ball coach to know the protocol for dealing with this. Paterno deserves better after all he's done to end his career like this.

Um no he doesn't. You know who deserved better? The boys that were raped by this monster. They deserved better than Paterno and these other spineless bastards saying "well I told my boss".

Also you're ignoring that it's extremely likely that Paterno knew about the previous allegations.

Paterno's not the worst guy in this but being a notch below a child rapist isnt something to be proud of.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Originally Posted by Razor Shines

Um no he doesn't. You know who deserved better? The boys that were raped by this monster. They deserved better than Paterno and these other spineless bastards saying "well I told my boss".

Also you're ignoring that it's extremely likely that Paterno knew about the previous allegations.

Paterno's not the worst guy in this but being a notch below a child rapist isnt something to be proud of.

Joe Paterno is many many many notches below a child rapist. He should not be labeled in that ocean, let alone that boat. He made a horrible mistake and I'll bet he'll say as much in the coming days.

Reading the Harrisburg story with the interview from the mother is completely heart breaking. One of the boys was abused for 4 more years after this incident occured and it could have been stopped.

[KoryMac5]

Originally Posted by Razor Shines

Um no he doesn't. You know who deserved better? The boys that were raped by this monster. They deserved better than Paterno and these other spineless bastards saying "well I told my boss".

Also you're ignoring that it's extremely likely that Paterno knew about the previous allegations.

Paterno's not the worst guy in this but being a notch below a child rapist isnt something to be proud of.

I agree Paterno needed to do more but to label him a notch below a molester is being extreme. I need to hear from Paterno myself to see what exactly was going on in his mind when he decided to report this incident to just the AD. I also need to here from the Grad Asst as well as to what he told Joe as well. Penn State needs to fire the President and ask Joe to resign, then appoint and independent investigator to look into what the heck happened here.

Sandusky had been under investigation for close to 20 years, why the heck didn't Penn State Police ask for additional help with this case. I am sure campus police don't handle many molestation cases.

Dark Days Ahead for PSU!

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Razor Shines

Um no he doesn't. You know who deserved better? The boys that were raped by this monster. They deserved better than Paterno and these other spineless bastards saying "well I told my boss".

Also you're ignoring that it's extremely likely that Paterno knew about the previous allegations.

Paterno's not the worst guy in this but being a notch below a child rapist isnt something to be proud of.

We can only deal in facts and we don't have the facts that Paterno knew about previous accusations.

Paterno reported it and that's fine with me. If this guy was still on his staff, I'd feel differently. Like I said, if this incident had happened in a dorm rather than the football team's showers, Paterno would not have had any involvement. It's up to the PSU officials to report it and I'm glad those heads are going to roll. It doesn't involve Paterno unless more evidence comes to light

[WMR]

Do you think Paterno would have handled this any differently if it were one of his grandkids?

[Razor Shines]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27

Joe Paterno is many many many notches below a child rapist. He should not be labeled in that ocean, let alone that boat. He made a horrible mistake and I'll bet he'll say as much in the coming days.

.

I'm sorry but think of the damage this has surely done to those boys. I don't know if you have kids but lets say this was your son. And someone very credible told me what this GA witnessed being done to your son and I didn't do anything and continued to work with the perpetrator. How do you feel about me now? That's more than a mistake, IMO.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

When did Pres Spanier ban him from campus?

Never. He did ban him from using the facilities as a part of his CHILD OUTREACH program 3 years after the initially reported incident.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

It's up to the PSU officials to report it and I'm glad those heads are going to roll. It doesn't involve Paterno unless more evidence comes to light

No, this is where you are completely wrong. It is up to anyone with knowledge of it to report it. Period. This isn't petty theft. This is child rape.