Incredible ugliness at Penn State

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by top6

The fact that you think Jim Tressel is remotely relevant to this discussion is mind boggling to me. At worst, Tressel supported efforts to cheat to recruit players to win football games. There is no comparison to what allegedly happened here.

Tressel's error was in not reporting a problem to University authorities. Paterno did exactly that. In that respect it's relevant

[top6]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Tressel's error was in not reporting a problem to University authorities. Paterno did exactly that. In that respect it's relevant

I think the reason your comparison is so offensive and pointless is that one of the "problems" involved improper benefits and one of the "problems" involved the rape of a young child. I wouldn't actually consider the later "a problem" so much as a tragedy or abomination that needs to be stopped at any cost.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Hypnotoad

"Paterno goes to police" = wrong

There are so many ignorant and repugnant statements in this thread.

I don't want to speak for another poster but I inferenced from his post that what you read was a hypothetical conversation with police in order to show how useless it would have been

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by top6

I think the reason your comparison is so offensive and pointless is that one of the "problems" involved improper benefits and one of the "problems" involved the rape of a young child. I wouldn't actually consider the later "a problem" so much as a tragedy or abomination that needs to be stopped at any cost.

I am not even getting into the severity of the problems being reported. I'm merely talking about the reporting of them. If you want to state for the record that one "problem" was much more severe than another I'm on board

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

I think that's pretty extreme and you're creating a lot more victims. Do we really need more victims? If you include everyone who had knowledge you're not only including the obvious suspects but you're including wives and others close to them.

I would qualify your statement and say that everyone who had knowledge of this and did not notify the police or the DA should lose their jobs and I hope the victims and their families sue them.

[Puffy]

Originally Posted by RFS62

This isn't about your legal obligations. This isn't about "doing all that was required by law".

This is about a trusted member of your staff committing the most heinous crimes imaginable. If the scenario you just played out happened exactly as you said, and you're an attorney, so I believe you that it would have been like that, his responsibility was only beginning at their lack of interest.

He should have moved heaven and earth to pressure the witness and the AD and anyone else in upper management who had any say over how this was handled to do the right thing.

Instead, he turned a blind eye and did nothing.

A real leader of men, he is.

You think Paterno is proud of how he handled things?

No, I don't think Paterno is proud of how he handled things. But that's a guess since who knows how his brain works anymore.

But, again, my point is we live in a gray world. Yet everyone continues to view it as black and white. And a lot of you who knows this are still treating this as black or white and you all are better than that.

[Puffy]

Originally Posted by HotCorner

Incorrect. Paterno testified that "the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy."

That's hardly "showering together." Curley and Schultz are the ones that testified and down played/lied about the incident.

If JoePa says the above to police an investigation would have occurred especially considering who JoePa is to that area.

First, you are correct and I apologize. I was doing quickly since I wrote a book and didn't look up correct wording. But its important to remember that Paterno claims the G.A. never stated having sex. Trivial maybe but I could get that torn through on cross.

Second, I think you are right on investigation and I was trying to show that. But the police can only go so far on a non-witness claim.

Think about it like this: Your neighbor is a wife beater. You know this. Everyone on your block knows this. One day guy who cuts your grass comes to you and says they saw neighbor punch his wife. You tell contractor he has to go to police. Contractor says he does not want to get involved. You decide that you have to do something. You go to police and tell police that its a well known secret that neighbor is domestic abuser and that an independent contractor who works for you witnessed abuse. However, Independent Contractor and abuse victim will not cooperate. What are the police to do? And if police cannot proceed further have you done all you could do? Neighbor is domestic abuser - they, like pedophiles - don't ever stop. So, what more can you do?

I think I have been clear - Joe Paterno needed to follow up. He needed to got to Superiors again, to campus police, to State College Police. But there is still only so much he can force police to do without that witness.

I guess I am just saying everyone is condemning Paterno way more than I am comfortable condemning him. He done did wrong. No argument. But he's not the devil. That's Sandusky

[Puffy]

Originally Posted by Hypnotoad

"Paterno goes to police" = wrong

There are so many ignorant and repugnant statements in this thread.

It was a hypothetical. I thought that was clear.

[dabvu2498]

Originally Posted by Puffy

No, I don't think Paterno is proud of how he handled things. But that's a guess since who knows how his brain works anymore.

But, again, my point is we live in a gray world. Yet everyone continues to view it as black and white. And a lot of you who knows this are still treating this as black or white and you all are better than that.

This is pretty black and white.

Sex with children is wrong.

Everyone who knew about it and didn't do EVERYTHING IN THEIR POWER to stop it is in the wrong.

[Puffy]

Joe Paterno: "I wish I had done more"

Now I am with you guys because now its black and white. No alternate story, no differing facts.

I hope people realize my problem was everyone is so quick to condemn without letting facts develop. Its a gray world. I am involved in a case where I heard the facts and I was so taken aback and outraged I took the case. Now it turns out none of the facts are correct. Whoops. Gray world.

[MWM]

I think the conversation to break down isn't the one that should have happened with the police, but the one with the GA. The excuse that he didn't give all the details is an indictment in itself. The conversation that should have happened is one where Paterno pushes the GA for details and tries to get as much information as he can. If the GA was so shaken up by it, Paterno should have been there for GA and gone to the police together. Then all of a sudden, the police DO have someone who witnessed it.

If Paterno didn't try to find out exactly what happened from the GA, then to me that speaks volumes as to where his priorities were.

[traderumor]

The biggest problem Paterno has is being a part of a clear coverup. That's conspiracy and requires consequences, the least of which is loss of job. Conspiracy has legal consequences as well, all rooted in moral responsibilities of those involved when crimes are committed.

I am a Finance Director at a mental health facility. If one of the agency's volunteers was doing a little boy in our shower, I reported it to our Executive Director, and if he did not do everything in his power to pursue prosecution of this volunteer, whether or not I actually witnessed it, I would not only be resigning, I would be going to our Board of Directors, the County MH Board, the State Board, anyone that would listen to make sure that this boy got justice.

How anyone can excuse Paterno from that responsibility is disappointing.

[cincrazy]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

The more I think about the situation the more I agree with this thinking. I try to imagine what I would have done in that situation. The coach who witnessed it was a 28 year old man at that time. I think I would have done my best to stop it but I can't put myself in that situation. I also think that while many people think Paterno should have done more, he did what he was legally required to do. We also don't know if he followed up with the AD or President. I do know that if the AD or President did the right think then Joe wouldn't be in this situation, Penn State wouldn't be in this situation.

What I find disappointing is the media's coverage of this incident. They won't stop until they ruin both Joe Pa and Penn State football. Very few of them are talking about the actual victims in the case or the disturbing events that Sandusky committed, they are bringing their lynches and going after Joe. The sad thing to me is that once Joe steps down and PSU football is ruined the national media will turn their focus elsewhere and leave the university in ruins. Often times we tend to project moral responsibility on others while we don't hold that same for ourselves.

Amen, brother.

[cincrazy]

I'm trying to understand why Paterno being forced out is a bigger story than finding out how many kids were abused, and the case against Sandusky.

Yes, Paterno should go. But it's pretty sad that's the main story in all of this.

[cincrazy]

This is the worst scandal in the history of college football. And it's not even close.

Shouldn't society be looking itself in the mirror? We build these guys up as heroes time and again, and this is what we get. Maybe if we didn't put college football on a religious-like level, these problems would diminish.

The institution was put ahead of the young boys. And these ignorant people rioting in support of Paterno and the university makes me sick.