Incredible ugliness at Penn State

[George Anderson]

Originally Posted by cincrazy

I'm trying to understand why Paterno being forced out is a bigger story than finding out how many kids were abused, and the case against Sandusky.

Yes, Paterno should go. But it's pretty sad that's the main story in all of this.

Because the all time winningest football coach in NCAA history retiring is not something that happens every day.

Sadly reports of adults having sex with children are not all that uncommon.

[Roy Tucker]

I do understand how very difficult it would be for Paterno to delve into this issue and follow up vigorously. It's a repugnant act, children are involved, a close friend assistant coach is involved, and he doesn't want to believe it. Not to mention he's from a different generation where these things just aren't discussed. It's a very difficult wall to break down and I get that.

I was put in a similar situation about 15 years ago with a close family member. His now ex-wife came to me saying "Roy, there is something going on here and I don't know what to do". And I went through all the disbelief and wanting to run away or ignore it or just push it off kinds of things. And after a sleepless night and some soul-searching and cousel from a wise wife, I said "OK, let's see what's going on". And asked a lot of very-hard-to-ask questions that eventually included police and criminal charges and jail and divorce and a whole raft of some really bad stuff.

So I get how hard it is to turn someone in for this. But doesn't absolve you of a moral obligation to follow it through to the bitter end. At least that's how I felt.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by Roy Tucker

I do understand how very difficult it would be for Paterno to delve into this issue and follow up vigorously. It's a repugnant act, children are involved, a close friend assistant coach is involved, and he doesn't want to believe it. Not to mention he's from a different generation where these things just aren't discussed. It's a very difficult wall to break down and I get that.

I was put in a similar situation about 15 years ago with a close family member. His now ex-wife came to me saying "Roy, there is something going on here and I don't know what to do". And I went through all the disbelief and wanting to run away or ignore it or just push it off kinds of things. And after a sleepless night and some soul-searching and cousel from a wise wife, I said "OK, let's see what's going on". And asked a lot of very-hard-to-ask questions that eventually included police and criminal charges and jail and divorce and a whole raft of some really bad stuff.

So I get how hard it is to turn someone in for this. But doesn't absolve you of a moral obligation to follow it through to the bitter end. At least that's how I felt.

That's well put Roy. I hope I've been clear in my posts that I wasn't excusing Paterno's lack of action, but rather putting it in the context. I do think of all the people in the media and elsewhere who insist that they would have done more, a good number of them don't recognize the amount of courage that would require and when actually faced with the decision, might not live up to their lofty standards.

In all honesty, if I'm Penn State, if at the end of the day, the sentence is Joe doesn't coach another game, then quite honestly they should forfeit the rest of the season.

Because if I'm the university, and I say what Joe Paterno did was shameful and we can't continue to have him represent our university, what was done by everyone above and around Joe was equally if not more shameful. Blast him for not doing anything more than the legal minimum. But at least he did the legal minimum.

If you want to make a statement, forfeit the games, offer the money from season tickets back to the people who bought it with the caveat that anyone who doesn't ask for their money back will have that amount donated to a charity dedicated to helping children recover from disgusting acts like this.

I'd also go about setting up a fund to reimburse the victims of the tragedy. If you have to massage the legalese that's fine, but be up front about your complicity as a University and your failure to act.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

In all honesty, if I'm Penn State, if at the end of the day, the sentence is Joe doesn't coach another game, then quite honestly they should forfeit the rest of the season.

This was a failure of leadership. I don't think its fair to the student athletes to make them pay for this.

[Hoosier Red]

Probably not. I simply don't see the point in the University-which on the whole was more complicit in the crime than Paterno-deciding that he's no longer fit to represent them.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Paterno did exactly what he should have when he heard about it: He reported it to authorities at the University. At that point he moved on. The villans here are first the guy who witnessed it,then his Dad, then the PSU President, the AD and Paterno is way down the list.

This guy has had a spotless record for "forever". It's not right that this should bring down his career such that it is and stain his legacy forever just because all these other folks didn't do the right thing. It wasn't incumbant upon Paterno to report it to police.

No. Paterno reported it to his boss. Not to the police. That is what he should have done when he heard about it. Anything besides that, or going out and beating the guy absolutely senseless, then calling the police, is "doing it wrong".

[top6]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

I am not even getting into the severity of the problems being reported. I'm merely talking about the reporting of them. If you want to state for the record that one "problem" was much more severe than another I'm on board

I still don't think the comparison makes any sense at all. A coach reports violations of the rules of the NCAA because it's his job, it's part of his contract, and because it's the right thing to do and is consistent with good sportsmanship.

A person human reports child abuse because it's their duty as a human being: whether that duty is legal or moral. Put another way, a person reports child abuse for the same reason that if a child runs in front of their car they stop the car: because to do anything else is disgusting and cruel.

I still don't understand what the point of mentioning Tressel was. In other words, had Paterno reported this, and had it just come out now for some reason, I don't think any normal person's first thought would have been: "wow, Paterno did what Tressel could not," which is what you seemed to be saying.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

I am not even getting into the severity of the problems being reported. I'm merely talking about the reporting of them. If you want to state for the record that one "problem" was much more severe than another I'm on board

Here is the difference.... one of them is illegal. What the players at Ohio State did was not illegal, at all. It simply broke very stupid rules set up by a private organization. One was illegal and reprehensible. One was the breaking of a stupid rule by a private organization. One is illegal. One is askin to making a photocopy of your butt on the copy machine at work. To suggest that reporting both to your boss is the same thing is ignoring what happened. One broke the law. You may report that to your boss, but you also need to report that to the authorities.

[RFS62]

Originally Posted by Roy Tucker

I do understand how very difficult it would be for Paterno to delve into this issue and follow up vigorously. It's a repugnant act, children are involved, a close friend assistant coach is involved, and he doesn't want to believe it. Not to mention he's from a different generation where these things just aren't discussed. It's a very difficult wall to break down and I get that.

I was put in a similar situation about 15 years ago with a close family member. His now ex-wife came to me saying "Roy, there is something going on here and I don't know what to do". And I went through all the disbelief and wanting to run away or ignore it or just push it off kinds of things. And after a sleepless night and some soul-searching and cousel from a wise wife, I said "OK, let's see what's going on". And asked a lot of very-hard-to-ask questions that eventually included police and criminal charges and jail and divorce and a whole raft of some really bad stuff.

So I get how hard it is to turn someone in for this. But doesn't absolve you of a moral obligation to follow it through to the bitter end. At least that's how I felt.

That's the difference in a man and a weasel. I couldn't care less what Paterno has done in his life, how many people he's helped, any amount of charity work he's done.

When faced with the knowledge that one of his subordinates raped a child in the Penn State locker room, there's nothing to decide... nothing else to consider. He's a gutless old man who deserves to be run out of town on a rail for sharing in the disgrace his administration's lack of common decency has brought on this once proud program.

No, Paterno doesn't deserve the same degree of repudiation that the child rapist. Good for him, he only gets remembered as the head of the program which enabled it to go on for years.

[top6]

Originally Posted by George Anderson

Because the all time winningest football coach in NCAA history retiring is not something that happens every day.

Sadly reports of adults having sex with children are not all that uncommon.

And similarly it is not uncommon for people to learn about sexual abuse and fail to report it. And this is one reason why Paterno, imo, if these allegations are true, should be punished and punished severely. If a high-profile figure suffers serious consequences, it may make other people who know about sexual abuse think twice about any decision they have made not to report it.

[MWM]

Originally Posted by RFS62

No, Paterno doesn't deserve the same degree of repudiation that the child rapist. Good for him, he only gets remembered as the head of the program which enabled it to go on for years.

This is exactly it.

[Stray]

It's also kinda crazy how the DA who decided not to prosecute Sandusky a long time ago, even though he apparently got a confession, went missing and is presumed dead.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Chip R

I would qualify your statement and say that everyone who had knowledge of this and did not notify the police or the DA should lose their jobs and I hope the victims and their families sue them.

Oh wonderful. Just what we need. More lawsuits...

[*BaseClogger*]

RT: @Stray "It's also kinda crazy how the DA who decided not to prosecute Sandusky a long time ago, even though he apparently got a confession, went missing and is presumed dead."

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Stray

It's also kinda crazy how the DA who decided not to prosecute Sandusky a long time ago, even though he apparently got a confession, went missing and is presumed dead.

Sounds to me that if this guy did his job then we wouldn't have this whole mess at PSU.

If the DA decided not to prosecute the case doesn't that mean that the reporting went through the proper channels? Am I missing something?