Reds eligible for 2013 Competitive Balance Lottery picks.

[Gallen5862]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...ticle_26059392


Competitive Balance Lottery to shake up Draft
Small-market, low-revenue teams to get chance at extra picks

The lottery, it seems, has been designed to help small-market and lowest-revenue clubs gain more talent not just because they had a poor season. Many of the smaller-market clubs were proponents of a system with hard slotting. While that hasn't happened, this current system is designed, with this lottery a part of it, to give those clubs a competitive advantage compared to the status quo.

Teams eligible for '13 Lottery
Arizona D-backs Baltimore Orioles
Cleveland Indians Kansas City Royals
Oakland Athletics Pittsburgh Pirates
San Diego Padres Tampa Bay Rays
Cincinnati Reds Colorado Rockies
Miami Marlins Milwaukee Brewers
St. Louis Cardinals


There is one other lottery, one for picks forfeited by teams going over their allotted bonus pools. Any team going five to 10 percent over its pool gets taxed at 75 percent and loses a first-round pick. Anyone going 10-15 percent over gets hit with a 100-percent tax and loses a first- and second-round pick. Anything over 15 percent means a 100-percent tax and loss of first-round selections in the next two Drafts.

Any of those forfeited picks would go into a separate lottery. Any team that did not exceed its pool will be in that lottery. In this one, though, the odds are not just based on winning percentage, but on a formula of revenue and winning percentage.

[AmarilloRed]

First thought-how exactly does St. Louis qualify as a small-market or low-revenue team?

[MattyHo4Life]

Originally Posted by AmarilloRed

First thought-how exactly does St. Louis qualify as a small-market or low-revenue team?

St. Louis isn't much bigger than Cincinnati.

[Wheelhouse]

Originally Posted by MattyHo4Life

St. Louis isn't much bigger than Cincinnati.

They're just good.

[AmarilloRed]

Originally Posted by MattyHo4Life

St. Louis isn't much bigger than Cincinnati.

The city might not be, but they have a much bigger market out there. They're a midmarket team bordering on large. It's really a stretch putting them in the lottery with the smaller teams.

[MattyHo4Life]

Originally Posted by AmarilloRed

The city might not be, but they have a much bigger market out there. They're a midmarket team bordering on large. It's really a stretch putting them in the lottery with the smaller teams.

St. Louis isn't even close to a large market team. Baltimore is probably twice the size of St. Louis. Now they are a stretch.

[757690]

Originally Posted by MattyHo4Life

St. Louis isn't even close to a large market team. Baltimore is probably twice the size of St. Louis. Now they are a stretch.

Cardinals had the 11th highest payroll in baseball last season at $109M, ahead of the Dodgers. They have always had one of the most lucrative tv/radio deals in baseball, and have always been one of the richest franchises.

If you give the Cardinals a lottery draft pick, you might as well as give the Dodgers a draft pick.

Beyond absurd.

[MattyHo4Life]

Originally Posted by 757690

Cardinals had the 11th highest payroll in baseball last season at $109M, ahead of the Dodgers. They have always had one of the most lucrative tv/radio deals in baseball, and have always been one of the richest franchises.

If you give the Cardinals a lottery draft pick, you might as well as give the Dodgers a draft pick.

Beyond absurd.

I didn't realize they were basing the lottery on payroll size. I thought it was based on the market size. Are you comparing the market size of St. Louis to LA?

[757690]

Originally Posted by MattyHo4Life

I didn't realize they were basing the lottery on payroll size. I thought it was based on the market size. Are you comparing the market size of St. Louis to LA?

It's based on market size and revenue. Payroll is pretty much determined by those two factors.

I would argue that Saint Louis is one of the top 5 markets in all of baseball.

NY
LA
Boston
Chicago
Saint Louis

Texas cities are bigger, but it's a football state.

[Roy Tucker]

From what I've read, eligibility is the 10 smallest-market teams and the 10 lowest-revenue teams. Several teams are in both lists and are called crossover teams. Because of that, the final list is 13 teams.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/print.jsp?ym...nt_id=26059392

These teams aren't eligible:

AL East - Yankees, Red Sox, Toronto,
NL East- Philly, Atlanta, Mets, Nationals
AL Central - Detroit, White Sox, Twins
NL Central - Cubs, Astros
AL West - Texas, Angels, Mariners
NL West - Giants, Dodgers,

[IslandRed]

Same thing I'd read, Roy.

I guess it depends on perspective. It seems absurd on its face to allow the World Series winner into a "competitive balance" lottery. At the same time, they are one of the ten smallest MLB markets. They do not have one of the ten lowest revenue streams. But if a team can raise its stature above its market due to smarts and winning, I guess I'd rather see that rewarded than punished. Odds are, I'd say Milwaukee is in the same place... and if we're lucky, one day Cincinnati will be.

[Sea Ray]

If the Cardinals are part of this lottery then they need to revamp their formula. A profitable team with a $109Mill payroll doesn't need MLB welfare.

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by 757690

Cardinals had the 11th highest payroll in baseball last season at $109M, ahead of the Dodgers. They have always had one of the most lucrative tv/radio deals in baseball, and have always been one of the richest franchises.

If you give the Cardinals a lottery draft pick, you might as well as give the Dodgers a draft pick.

Beyond absurd.

I guess I disagree.
The Cardinals' market is roughly the size of Cincinnati.
Sure, they are in an area of the country where their only close competition is the Royals, but they don't have a lot of large cities like Louisville, Columbus, Dayton, Lexington, etc to draw from (as far as I know, not an expert on the area).

Cincinnati has a potentially HUGE population base to draw from. In Marge's heydey, the Reds had one of the top 10 payrolls in all of baseball. No one ever said the Reds were a large market back then.

The Cardinals leveraged their new stadium and Mark McGwire and took their franchise to the next level. The Reds had a similiar opportunity (Jr and the GAB) and basically flushed it down the toilet with their short term thinking.

Honestly, the Cards are a model for how small markets should be run.
I admire them greatly.I don't think they should be penalized for having a successful business plan (although I think team payroll might impact the lottery?? Not sure on that detail).
The owners agreed the 13 smallest markets get into this lotto. St Louis qualifies.

Honestly though, this competive balance draft is really going to do nothing to improve competitive balance. This is just another bone thrown out, mainly for PR. So these teams can expect to get an extra draft pick roughly every other year.. that's not enough to really make a huge impact... Realistically.. if the club is smart, maybe they get another decent player out of their farm every 5 years or so?

[757690]

Originally Posted by REDREAD

I guess I disagree.
The Cardinals' market is roughly the size of Cincinnati.
Sure, they are in an area of the country where their only close competition is the Royals, but they don't have a lot of large cities like Louisville, Columbus, Dayton, Lexington, etc to draw from (as far as I know, not an expert on the area).

Cincinnati has a potentially HUGE population base to draw from. In Marge's heydey, the Reds had one of the top 10 payrolls in all of baseball. No one ever said the Reds were a large market back then.

The Cardinals leveraged their new stadium and Mark McGwire and took their franchise to the next level. The Reds had a similiar opportunity (Jr and the GAB) and basically flushed it down the toilet with their short term thinking.

Honestly, the Cards are a model for how small markets should be run.
I admire them greatly.I don't think they should be penalized for having a successful business plan (although I think team payroll might impact the lottery?? Not sure on that detail).
The owners agreed the 13 smallest markets get into this lotto. St Louis qualifies.

Honestly though, this competive balance draft is really going to do nothing to improve competitive balance. This is just another bone thrown out, mainly for PR. So these teams can expect to get an extra draft pick roughly every other year.. that's not enough to really make a huge impact... Realistically.. if the club is smart, maybe they get another decent player out of their farm every 5 years or so?

I've lived in both cities, and I can tell you that St. Louis is a significantly bigger city and baseball market than Cincinnati.

First off, St. Louis is at least a third bigger in population of the immediate metro area. It also is a much wealthier city. St. Louis is the home to 8 world headquarters, including Anheuser-Busch, McDonald Douglass, Monsanto, and Emerson Electric. Cincinnati has P&G.

As for the fan base outside of the cities, much of the Midwest was Cardinal country for most of the past century. Adding Atlanta, the Texas teams, the Twins cut into that a bit, but go to any small town in the midwest, southwest, and even the south, and you'll find plenty of Cardinal fans.

Like I said, Saint Louis is around the fifth largest baseball market in baseball and always has been. It has little to do with how smart they are run, but mostly to do with logistics.

Regardless, how can any team justify getting MLB welfare when it has offered a 9 year $200M contract, when it already has another player signed to 7 year $120M contract?

Beyond absurd.

[RBA]

Originally Posted by MattyHo4Life

St. Louis isn't even close to a large market team. Baltimore is probably twice the size of St. Louis. Now they are a stretch.

You have to consider other variables.

Baltimore's market base is saturated with other teams.

Does St Louis have 4 other teams within 4 hour drive?