Drew Stubbs is the perfect #8 hitter. - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

WebScorpion · 01-17-2012, 08:18 PM

I think Drew Stubbs is the perfect #8 hitter.

1 - middling OBP so you don't want him at the top of the order.
2 - Pitchers might hesitate to walk him because of his speed.
3 - Has enough power to occasionally clear the bases before the pitcher makes the third out.
4 - If they do walk him, he could be on third base by the time the pitcher's AB ends.
5 - With him on, pitchers may get more fastballs which many of our pitchers can hit.

Any opinions? Besides "It's too early to talk about lineups."

Joseph · 01-17-2012, 08:37 PM

I think like anything it comes back to this team having a lot of guys who are best suited for the bottom 1/3 of the line up.

Stubbs would be a good 8th place hitter though for the reasons you mention. But who bats leadoff? Cozart has yet to show enough to prove he could do it. Phillips, as I recall, didn't look great there last year. Hesiey? I don't know the answer.

Can we just start the game with an out and skip leadoff?

I(heart)Freel · 01-17-2012, 09:03 PM

Actually BPhil proved pretty adept at leading off last year. Will find numbers to back up my failing memory.

camisadelgolf · 01-17-2012, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph

Phillips, as I recall, didn't look great there last year.

As a leadoff hitter, he puts up a line of .279/.340/.455/.794 for his career. In 2011, it was .350/.417/.573/.990.

Joseph · 01-17-2012, 09:18 PM

I stand corrected then.

AmarilloRed · 01-17-2012, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

As a leadoff hitter, he puts up a line of .279/.340/.455/.794 for his career. In 2011, it was .350/.417/.573/.990.

He's also scored 90+ runs 2 years in a row batting leadoff-he needs be at the top of the lineup.

*BaseClogger* · 01-17-2012, 10:55 PM

I've often wondered: is it better to have an aggressive hitter or patient hitter batting eighth?

Far East · 01-17-2012, 11:21 PM

LaRussa style: I'd bat him ninth, amounting to an extra lead-off hitter, and -- after the first inning -- having him + #1 + # 2 hitting in front of Votto.

Danny Serafini · 01-18-2012, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far East

LaRussa style: I'd bat him ninth, amounting to an extra lead-off hitter, and -- after the first inning -- having him + #1 + # 2 hitting in front of Votto.

So I'm not the only one who thought that.

REDREAD · 01-18-2012, 08:56 AM

Before we move Drew to the 8th slot, we need to see that Mersaco is for real. We also need a better hitting SS than Cozart.

I would bat the catcher 7th, and the SS 8th on this team.

Ideally, you bat Drew #6 to leverage his power, but he's not a horrid leadoff hitter. I know the OBP people are cringing at that statement, but the "old school" thought about sacrificing a little OBP for speed isn't completely insane. Of all the players on the team, Drew is more likely to score from 1b when he makes it there (all things being equal).. Given that the only other real choice for leadoff is Phillips, having Stubbs lead off is a reasonable compromise if you want Phillips to bat in the middle of the order.

puca · 01-18-2012, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WebScorpion

I think Drew Stubbs is the perfect #8 hitter.

1 - middling OBP so you don't want him at the top of the order.
2 - Pitchers might hesitate to walk him because of his speed.
3 - Has enough power to occasionally clear the bases before the pitcher makes the third out.
4 - If they do walk him, he could be on third base by the time the pitcher's AB ends.
5 - With him on, pitchers may get more fastballs which many of our pitchers can hit.

Any opinions? Besides "It's too early to talk about lineups."

Pitchers rarely take pitches in a sacrifice situation. I think Stubbs base stealing ability would often be wasted in the 8th spot . His best spot in this order is probably 7th, although 9th might be interesting.

Of course I'm not sure who I would bat 8th. Hanigan when he is playing is pretty good there, but it would be tough way to break in Mez.

TRF · 01-18-2012, 09:41 AM

REDREAD, I'll bet Cozart has a higher OPS than Jimmy Rollins in 2012.

bucksfan2 · 01-18-2012, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

As a leadoff hitter, he puts up a line of .279/.340/.455/.794 for his career. In 2011, it was .350/.417/.573/.990.

I like Phillips in the leadoff role over the 4 spot. I think he tries to adapt his game to what his order slot should be. When he was in the cleanup role I think Phillips tried too much to be a power hitter. In the leadoff role I think he tried to work the count. IMO Phillips needs to keep OPB as his #1 priority and not worry about his power numbers.

Rojo · 01-18-2012, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puca

Pitchers rarely take pitches in a sacrifice situation. I think Stubbs base stealing ability would often be wasted in the 8th spot .

That was my first thought as well. You'd be wasting the one thing Stubbs does really, really well.

6th is the ideal spot for OBP-challenged power, speed guys. The homers clear the high OBP power hitters in front and the SB's give him a chance to score with the Judy's batting behind him.

Having said that, even in a down year, Stubbs is an great lead-off hitter against lefties.

REDREAD · 01-18-2012, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRF

REDREAD, I'll bet Cozart has a higher OPS than Jimmy Rollins in 2012.

Ok, what the heck, I will take that bet.. I'll be happy to lose that one.
Minimum of 400 ABs to qualify.

01-17-2012, 08:37 PM	#2
Joseph Tired of talk. Win! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 8,121	Re: Drew Stubbs is the perfect #8 hitter. I think like anything it comes back to this team having a lot of guys who are best suited for the bottom 1/3 of the line up. Stubbs would be a good 8th place hitter though for the reasons you mention. But who bats leadoff? Cozart has yet to show enough to prove he could do it. Phillips, as I recall, didn't look great there last year. Hesiey? I don't know the answer. Can we just start the game with an out and skip leadoff? __________________ Championships for MY teams in my lifetime: Cincinnati Reds - 75, 76, 90 Chicago Blackhawks - 10 University of Kentucky - 78, 96, 98, 12 Cincinnati Bengals - None Chicago Bulls - 91, 92, 93, 96, 97, 98

01-17-2012, 09:03 PM	#3
I(heart)Freel Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: West Side (No Diggity) Posts: 1,010	Re: Drew Stubbs is the perfect #8 hitter. Actually BPhil proved pretty adept at leading off last year. Will find numbers to back up my failing memory. __________________ I have a love-hate relationship with Albert Pujols. Mostly hate.

01-17-2012, 09:18 PM	#5
Joseph Tired of talk. Win! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 8,121	Re: Drew Stubbs is the perfect #8 hitter. I stand corrected then. __________________ Championships for MY teams in my lifetime: Cincinnati Reds - 75, 76, 90 Chicago Blackhawks - 10 University of Kentucky - 78, 96, 98, 12 Cincinnati Bengals - None Chicago Bulls - 91, 92, 93, 96, 97, 98

01-17-2012, 10:55 PM	#7
BaseClogger WOOOOO!!! Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Midland, MI Posts: 6,075	Re: Drew Stubbs is the perfect #8 hitter. I've often wondered: is it better to have an aggressive hitter or patient hitter batting eighth? __________________ "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

01-18-2012, 08:56 AM	#10
REDREAD Where's my chair? Join Date: Apr 2000 Posts: 19,781	Re: Drew Stubbs is the perfect #8 hitter. Before we move Drew to the 8th slot, we need to see that Mersaco is for real. We also need a better hitting SS than Cozart. I would bat the catcher 7th, and the SS 8th on this team. Ideally, you bat Drew #6 to leverage his power, but he's not a horrid leadoff hitter. I know the OBP people are cringing at that statement, but the "old school" thought about sacrificing a little OBP for speed isn't completely insane. Of all the players on the team, Drew is more likely to score from 1b when he makes it there (all things being equal).. Given that the only other real choice for leadoff is Phillips, having Stubbs lead off is a reasonable compromise if you want Phillips to bat in the middle of the order. __________________ Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2012 AND 2013! Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

01-17-2012, 08:18 PM	#1
WebScorpion SERP deep cover ops Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: In the Ether Posts: 5,363	Drew Stubbs is the perfect #8 hitter. I think Drew Stubbs is the perfect #8 hitter. 1 - middling OBP so you don't want him at the top of the order. 2 - Pitchers might hesitate to walk him because of his speed. 3 - Has enough power to occasionally clear the bases before the pitcher makes the third out. 4 - If they do walk him, he could be on third base by the time the pitcher's AB ends. 5 - With him on, pitchers may get more fastballs which many of our pitchers can hit. Any opinions? Besides "It's too early to talk about lineups." __________________ "It doesn't get any better than this," --Marty Brennaman

01-17-2012, 11:21 PM	#8
Far East Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,372	Re: Drew Stubbs is the perfect #8 hitter. LaRussa style: I'd bat him ninth, amounting to an extra lead-off hitter, and -- after the first inning -- having him + #1 + # 2 hitting in front of Votto.

01-18-2012, 09:41 AM	#12
TRF Vavasor Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Amarillo, TX Posts: 12,669	Re: Drew Stubbs is the perfect #8 hitter. REDREAD, I'll bet Cozart has a higher OPS than Jimmy Rollins in 2012. __________________ "don't end up with a grandson with a dog collar."

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