Where's the Tim Tebow thread?

[Stray]

Originally Posted by Mutaman

Because the media told them to.

I'm able to form my own opinions without help.

From an outsiders view what I saw with the Broncos was a team rallying around a strong leader and playing better football. You can look at Tebow's physical QB skills and analyze them all day. There are tons of flaws and a lot of room for improvement. It's only fair to take into account his intangibles, and that is something that most would agree are off the chart.

There are guys like Carson Palmer with all of the skills you could ever want and none of the intangibles, then there are guys like Tebow who are the exact opposite, and then a guy like Tom Brady who has the best of both worlds. It's often said in sports that great leaders elevate the game of everyone around them, I'm pretty sure that's what we saw happen in Denver. Because lets be real, that team doesn't really have a ton of talent or anything.

[MWM]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

So do you think the Broncos would have made the playoffs if they'd stuck with Orton?

What happened to sticking with facts? I thought that was your guiding principal?

I don't know and neither do you, nor does anyone else. I think they were probably just as likely, but it's just speculation. Did you forget that they won 6 in a row with Orton back in 2009? Did you see where I posted that 3 of the 4 losses with Orton as QB were less than 5 points with 2 of them being by 3 points or less?

Did you read where I said they actually scored more points per game with Orton at QB than with Tebow? If the offense actually scored more points per game with QB X than QB Y, then how is so far-fetched to think that they'd have been just as likely the playoffs with QB X? You'd have to be a moron to think scoring less points per game increases a team's chances of winning.

I don't know what everyone else thinks, but I have to believe scoring more points is better than scoring less. And I also have to think that if QB Y is much better than QB X, then the offense would actually perform better. If the offense performed worse, then I'd have a hard time concluding that the leader of that offense was significantly better.

I know which team won the game when the 2 QBs played head to head. And you do realize the Chiefs won 2 of 3 once they acquired Orton, including the sole loss the Packers had the whole year. They had loss 4 of 5 prior to that. Their only loss was a 3 point loss to Oakland. It gets really fuzzy when you start trying to pins wins and losses on a QB.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by MWM

What happened to sticking with facts? I thought that was your guiding principal?

I don't know and neither do you, nor does anyone else. I think they were probably just as likely, but it's just speculation. Did you forget that they won 6 in a row with Orton back in 2009? Did you see where I posted that 3 of the 4 losses with Orton as QB were less than 5 points with 2 of them being by 3 points or less?

Did you read where I said they actually scored more points per game with Orton at QB than with Tebow? If the offense actually scored more points per game with QB X than QB Y, then how is so far-fetched to think that they'd have been just as likely the playoffs with QB X? You'd have to be a moron to think scoring less points per game increases a team's chances of winning.

I don't know what everyone else thinks, but I have to believe scoring more points is better. I know which team won the game when the 2 QBs played head to head.

You're confusing threads and I'm not surprised. I'm asking for speculation. Your opinion here. Granted none of us possess the power of Miss Cleo so there's no right or wrong answer when we try to guess if the Broncos would have fared better with Orton or Tebow.

I won't call you a moron for thinking the Broncos were headed anywhere with Orton as QB but I'll say stats be damned, there's no way they win the West with Orton as QB.

There is no right or wrong answer as we'll never know but I'm amazed how anyone can think that Tebow didn't inspire his team to the playoffs

[MWM]

Because the facts don't support that assertion, that's how.

When all they needed was one win to get in, he couldn't seem to "inspire" them then. On a game where they won and they were in the playoffs, the offense managed all of 3 points. Is that "inspiring"?

Maybe he inspired the rest of the AFC to suck REALLY bad. Because it you're basing this whole inspiration idea on them getting into the playoffs, that was the real reason they go there.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by MWM

Because the facts don't support that assertion, that's how.

It's my opinion that Tebow cannot be fully evaluated on stats alone. If you go by his stats, you can't figure out how his team won several of those games. One must look further than that.

[MWM]

Actually, I think one must look further than the QB.

And it's not his stats. The offense scored LESS points with him. No one really knows what would have happened, but the implication is that the defense played better because Tebow was the QB. I just can't get behind that line of reasoning. It makes for an interesting narrative, but that doesn't make it truth.

[Mutaman]

Originally Posted by Stray

I'm able to form my own opinions without help.

Do you honestly think there would be a thread with over 200 posts if it wasn't for the hype? Why not a big thread for Cam Newton?

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

You're confusing threads and I'm not surprised. I'm asking for speculation. Your opinion here. Granted none of us possess the power of Miss Cleo so there's no right or wrong answer when we try to guess if the Broncos would have fared better with Orton or Tebow.

I won't call you a moron for thinking the Broncos were headed anywhere with Orton as QB but I'll say stats be damned, there's no way they win the West with Orton as QB.

There is no right or wrong answer as we'll never know but I'm amazed how anyone can think that Tebow didn't inspire his team to the playoffs

The Broncos won a game agaisnt a previously defeated team by scoring 15 points including an onsides kick recovery in the last few minutes of a game. They also sent a game into overtime with a 59 yard FG make and won the game with another long FG. They went 8-8 with a handful, yes a handful, of unprobable wins. Do I think Orton could have done that? I think if the defense played as good during a 6 game stretch they would have won more games easily than they did with Tebow at the helm.

Do I think Tebow's attitude helped, sure. But I also think inspired football only takes you so far.

[MWM]

Maybe Matt Prater was the real inspiration behind the playoff push.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by MWM

Maybe Matt Prater was the real inspiration behind the playoff push.

Prater was a stud during their winning streak. Dude was nailing 50 yard FG's like they were 30 yarders.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by MWM

Actually, I think one must look further than the QB.

And it's not his stats. The offense scored LESS points with him. No one really knows what would have happened, but the implication is that the defense played better because Tebow was the QB. I just can't get behind that line of reasoning. It makes for an interesting narrative, but that doesn't make it truth.

I noticed the same thing in Boomer's last year when he replaced Jeff Blake. All of a sudden the O-line didn't suck and the defense seemed to play better. It's happened before when one player elevates the entire team.

I'm glad Tim Tebow is not my QB but I have to give him credit for taking a 1-4 team to the playoffs. I think by any measure he was a successful QB this year but I see problems in the future. In order for him to be successful you have to taylor an offense around him and then what do you do when he gets hurt? How can you possibly have a 2nd/3rd string guy who can run it?

And he will get hurt. He even had injuries playing this way in the SEC. Word is that he's hurt right now and if there was a game this weekend, he'd be listed as questionable.

I don't think the Broncos have discovered a new way to win in the NFL but I am enamored with how they do exactly that week after week with Tebow completing about two passes a qtr

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

And he will get hurt. He even had injuries playing this way in the SEC. Word is that he's hurt right now and if there was a game this weekend, he'd be listed as questionable.

I wonder what his views are on painkillers? One would think he's had to make a decision on whether to take them in the past.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Chip R

I wonder what his views are on painkillers? One would think he's had to make a decision on whether to take them in the past.

I doubt he'd have a problem with them as long as they're taken to kill pain and not to get high

[Revering4Blue]

Jets acquire Tim Tebow for draft pick

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/stor...4th-round-pick

[blumj]

Some things just seems too good to be true to even be worth contemplating, then one of those things actually happens, and you don't know how to react.