Reds trade LHP Jeremy Horst to Phillies for infielder Wilson Valdez

[Larkin Fan]

Originally Posted by tixe

I had thought that Valdez wasn't very good, so i looked up his numbers. I was overrating him. Can this guy even out hit Janish?

I thought it was clear that we didn't trade for him for his hitting ability. It was his pitching ability.

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

And Wilson Valdez is what exactly? Bothered looking up HIS stats? They're far from awe-inspiring.

Sadly, it's still an upgrade from Janish (with his 521 OPS and mediocre defense).
Janish is that bad.

There's also a thought that Janish may never recover phsycologically from the beating he took in the big leagues.

This move allows them to stash Janish at AAA for depth. Valdez makes the team as the backup SS.

[Roy Tucker]

Originally Posted by Larkin Fan

I thought it was clear that we didn't trade for him for his hitting ability. It was his pitching ability.

Hey, Janish has a 90 mph heater, albeit very straight.

[Vottomatic]

They're sending Janish to Louisville to learn 2 more pitches to add him to bullpen depth.

[Mario-Rijo]

As Pedro said it's a depth issue. And to make anything more out of it than that is a waste of time and effort. Time to move on to the next issue at hand, overall organizational depth especially in the OF and pitching.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Valdez is definitely better than Janish. C'mon now people! The shocking thing is that the Reds even decided to re-sign Janish at $800K instead of letting him walk.

[RedlegJake]

He's decent depth and gives the Reds another relatively inexpensive option at SS. No earth-shaking deal but not bad. He is basically a tick better than Janish with the bat while Janish is probably a tick better with the glove. Paul goes to AAA and has to force his way back to the big club which is a good thing. If he does good for him. If he can't well - good for the Reds having Valdez.

[Kc61]

This is an experience move.

The Reds are going to be quite young in 2012. A pretty young team already will add Mesoraco, Francisco, Cozart.

My view is they like Valdez over Janish because he has more MLB time and more playoff and pennant race experience. Also may hit just a tad better than Paul.

My guessing has been off lately, I guessed that Masset would be traded. Instead he was re-signed for two years at $5.5 million.

But I'm now guessing Janish will be traded rather than stocked at AAA.

[TRF]

Originally Posted by reds44

Valdez has at least posted three consecutive seasons of above .630 OPS (and before last year he posted back to back .660 OPS).

If Paul Janish ever OPSes north of .600 I'll be surprised. He's THAT bad.

Paul Janish 2010 .260 .338 .385 .723 in about 200 AB's At age 27

Wilson Valdez 2007 .201 .245 .266 .511 in about 140 AB's at age 27

Yes, that is a .245 OBP.

really? we added the 33 year old version of a LESSER player than we had in hand?

[TRF]

Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey

Valdez is definitely better than Janish. C'mon now people! The shocking thing is that the Reds even decided to re-sign Janish at $800K instead of letting him walk.

He's actually not better. He's not better defensively, and the bats are probably equal.

Which makes Janish the better player.

Janish isn't Barry Larkin, and we don't need him to be. He's not the starter. But getting Wilson Valdez is a waste of a roster spot.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by TRF

Paul Janish 2010 .260 .338 .385 .723 in about 200 AB's At age 27

Wilson Valdez 2007 .201 .245 .266 .511 in about 140 AB's at age 27

Yes, that is a .245 OBP.

really? we added the 33 year old version of a LESSER player than we had in hand?

I guess if they were both still 27 you'd have a point.

[camisadelgolf]

If Wilson Valdez is your everyday shortstop, your team is in trouble. Fortunately, it doesn't look like that's what's going on here. The Reds gave up a decent AAAA pitcher and got a serviceable infielder. Now I wonder who's getting booted from the 40-man roster.

[TRF]

Originally Posted by Kc61

I guess if they were both still 27 you'd have a point.

I think my point was Valdez wasn't any good 6 years ago.

He's still not any good, but he's older, slower, and worse defensively, so he has that going for him.

[TRF]

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

If Wilson Valdez is your everyday shortstop, your team is in trouble. Fortunately, it doesn't look like that's what's going on here. The Reds gave up a decent AAAA pitcher and got a serviceable infielder. Now I wonder who's getting booted from the 40-man roster.

Wasn't Horst on the 40? I thought he was up last year.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Originally Posted by TRF

He's actually not better. He's not better defensively, and the bats are probably equal.

Which makes Janish the better player.

Janish isn't Barry Larkin, and we don't need him to be. He's not the starter. But getting Wilson Valdez is a waste of a roster spot.

No, the bats are not "probably equal." Valdez is the better hitter. Not by a ton, but he's clearly better.

Janish is better defensively, I will give him that. But Valdez is no slouch defensively.

He's also going to give you around a .300 OBP, which is far better than anything Janish will produce. Not only is Janish a complete punch-and-Judy hitter, he hardly ever walks. So, his paltry batting average is roughly the same as his paltry OBP.

Again, no one is saying that Valdez is good. Only that he's better than Paul Janish. I'm sure Walt Jocketty agrees Valdez is better than Janish, or he wouldn't have made the move.