2012 NFL Draft Discussion

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by Puffy

I disagree.

It all depends on needs. I have seen Richardson to the Chiefs and in that instance I agree with you. They have Charles and even though they love the two back system wasting a first round pick on a 15-17 touch per game person does not seem like good business when you can get a good running back later.

But if you are a team with no back then I can see taking Richardson in first round. Especially if you think he is Peterson/Jones-Drew good.

Everything is needs. I hear the same argument about "Never take a safety with a high pick." Well, if you need a safety and feel one guy is head and shoulders above every other safety prospect then take him. Great players are great players. If you have a chance to take one you take him and sort out everything else later, IMO.

[WebScorpion]

Originally Posted by Puffy

I disagree.

It all depends on needs. I have seen Richardson to the Chiefs and in that instance I agree with you. They have Charles and even though they love the two back system wasting a first round pick on a 15-17 touch per game person does not seem like good business when you can get a good running back later.

But if you are a team with no back then I can see taking Richardson in first round. Especially if you think he is Peterson/Jones-Drew good.

Everything is needs. I hear the same argument about "Never take a safety with a high pick." Well, if you need a safety and feel one guy is head and shoulders above every other safety prospect then take him. Great players are great players. If you have a chance to take one you take him and sort out everything else later, IMO.

I agree with this and I think Richardson is going to be an Adrian Peterson kind of game changer. I also think he's head and shoulders above the rest of the choices this year, so if he's there at #17 we should take him.
That said, I think the Bengals have more room under the cap than any team in the NFL this year so I'm hoping we make a splash in the Free Agent market. I'm hoping they sign a Michael Bush or Matt Forte making the whole Trent Richardson debate moot for us.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by WebScorpion

I agree with this and I think Richardson is going to be an Adrian Peterson kind of game changer. I also think he's head and shoulders above the rest of the choices this year, so if he's there at #17 we should take him.
That said, I think the Bengals have more room under the cap than any team in the NFL this year so I'm hoping we make a splash in the Free Agent market. I'm hoping they sign a Michael Bush or Matt Forte making the whole Trent Richardson debate moot for us.

Bush isn't an upgrade to Benson but I agree with your hopes on being a player in the FA market especially Forte UFA, you can also include R. Rice UFA and A. Foster RFA. Not convinced Rice will be available but it's possible (though perhaps not probable) the other 2 could be had.

As far as Richardson goes I have come to the conclusion I wouldn't trade up very far for him like I would have a month ago, to much uncertainty about whether or not he can carry the load. He never had to in college and he had some pretty serious ankle injuries in HS from what I've heard. But I would trade up as far as I could without giving up more than a 5th round pick (perhaps a 4th). I think there is a possibility the Jets would take the plunge in front of us if Richardson fell there.

[texasdave]

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2012/2/13...-behind-chiefs

[izzy's dad]

I watched some sort of skills competition for some of the players that wanted to improve their draft stock yesterday on ESPN 2. It was pretty worthless except for the hands competition. Mohammed Sanu, Michael Flloyd, and Devier Posey were the recievers that took part, and Posey blew both of them away. He has decent size at 6' 2'', great speed, and excellent hands. The best part is even if he has a good combine he grades out around the fourth round. I would love for the Bengals to go after Posey. The Bengals need a #2 reciever, and I think he could be that guy. He is a local guy, and I think that could be a minor draw for fans. What do you guys think?

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by izzy's dad

I watched some sort of skills competition for some of the players that wanted to improve their draft stock yesterday on ESPN 2. It was pretty worthless except for the hands competition. Mohammed Sanu, Michael Flloyd, and Devier Posey were the recievers that took part, and Posey blew both of them away. He has decent size at 6' 2'', great speed, and excellent hands. The best part is even if he has a good combine he grades out around the fourth round. I would love for the Bengals to go after Posey. The Bengals need a #2 reciever, and I think he could be that guy. He is a local guy, and I think that could be a minor draw for fans. What do you guys think?

I think they struck Gold with AJ Green last year, but it seems hard to project getting another WR who has a big impact as a rookie. I'd think if they're going to go to FA for any position, WR would seem to be a fit. Maybe get Reggie Wayne if the Colts don't re-sign him.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

I think they struck Gold with AJ Green last year, but it seems hard to project getting another WR who has a big impact as a rookie. I'd think if they're going to go to FA for any position, WR would seem to be a fit. Maybe get Reggie Wayne if the Colts don't re-sign him.

I think WR is a need after RB, OL, DB and LB. The only two really pressing needs are corner backs and a guard. I think they could use help at safety and also could use help in the linebacking corps. That said I do think if they see good value at WR they will jump at it. Last season they may have had the worst #2 wideout in the league (sans maybe the 49ers).

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

I think WR is a need after RB, OL, DB and LB. The only two really pressing needs are corner backs and a guard. I think they could use help at safety and also could use help in the linebacking corps. That said I do think if they see good value at WR they will jump at it. Last season they may have had the worst #2 wideout in the league (sans maybe the 49ers).

A very good point. It's a balancing act between need and the ability for a FA to make an instant impact. WR isn't as high of a need, but it seems like there are a number of guys who can come in and be productive from day one.

I'd also like to sign a FA guard simply because it seems like there aren't a lot of interior lineman who play at a high level as rookies.

[izzy's dad]

I am curious to see what direction the Bengals will go in regards to the draft this year. Will they fill some of their major needs via free agency and use the draft to fill other needs and take the best player available, or will they fill major needs with the draft and supplement the roster with free agents? If they use some of that cap space on a Carl Nicks type guy, that changes how they will draft. Either way I am super excited. The combine should be interesting.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

A very good point. It's a balancing act between need and the ability for a FA to make an instant impact. WR isn't as high of a need, but it seems like there are a number of guys who can come in and be productive from day one.

I'd also like to sign a FA guard simply because it seems like there aren't a lot of interior lineman who play at a high level as rookies.

It is a balancing act. I think that the vast majority of free agents don't help nearly as much as teams have hoped. You can look at some of the marquee signings of the past and see that their impact isn't nearly as high as hoped.

Its a must to sure up the defensive backfield as well as the offensive line. Once they do that I think they will look to the best player available. If you have someone rated high and he slips it doesn't make sense to pass on him because it isn't necessarily a position of need. Look at the Pats draft of a few years ago, they selected two TE's in the 3rd round. Looked odd at the time but both are a major cog to their offense.

[sonny]

Originally Posted by izzy's dad

I watched some sort of skills competition for some of the players that wanted to improve their draft stock yesterday on ESPN 2. It was pretty worthless except for the hands competition. Mohammed Sanu, Michael Flloyd, and Devier Posey were the recievers that took part, and Posey blew both of them away. He has decent size at 6' 2'', great speed, and excellent hands. The best part is even if he has a good combine he grades out around the fourth round. I would love for the Bengals to go after Posey. The Bengals need a #2 reciever, and I think he could be that guy. He is a local guy, and I think that could be a minor draw for fans. What do you guys think?

I stay away from Posey. He has a history of bad decision making off the field. I would keep that kind of stigma far away from the Bengals.

I realize AJ has had similar issues, but he never took money WHILE an investigation of the athletic dept was going on. Avoid this knucklehead.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by izzy's dad

I watched some sort of skills competition for some of the players that wanted to improve their draft stock yesterday on ESPN 2. It was pretty worthless except for the hands competition. Mohammed Sanu, Michael Floyd, and Devier Posey were the recievers that took part, and Posey blew both of them away. He has decent size at 6' 2'', great speed, and excellent hands. The best part is even if he has a good combine he grades out around the fourth round. I would love for the Bengals to go after Posey. The Bengals need a #2 reciever, and I think he could be that guy. He is a local guy, and I think that could be a minor draw for fans. What do you guys think?

Posey, great speed? I don't see that, maybe 4.48 to 4.52ish which is fine but nothing to rave about. I'm not sure someone who made the decisions he made would be considered a positive in terms of a bump in attendance either. He was a nice WR at OSU but not so much so that people are gonna go out of their way to see him. I wouldn't hate him being drafted in the 4th but I'd think/hope we could do better there in the draft and at the position in general. If they are in the market for a #2 come draft time (I doubt it I think Simpson will get re-signed or Manningham will be the guy) I suspect you would see someone drafted much sooner, no later than the 2nd but most likely with their 2nd 1st (Floyd or Wright would likely be a target then IMO).

Posey would be a good candidate to replace Caldwell who unless he takes a miniscule contract is probably going bye-bye.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

I think WR is a need after RB, OL, DB and LB. The only two really pressing needs are corner backs and a guard. I think they could use help at safety and also could use help in the linebacking corps. That said I do think if they see good value at WR they will jump at it. Last season they may have had the worst #2 wideout in the league (sans maybe the 49ers).

I think that is an example of not seeing what is really out there on other teams. I'd take Simpson even over some # 1's let alone #2's.

Cleveland, S.F., Rams, Seattle, T.B., Chicago, Minny, Jax, Titans, Denver, Oakland all had no one clearly better than Simpson on their roster last season (Maybe Britt but he was injured). And there are a few more teams than that who would have possibly seen Jerome start for them (Washington for example) as at least a #2 if not better. Grass isn't always greener just because yours is clearly not green enough. Simpson still has things he needs to work on but his talent is up there.

[izzy's dad]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

Posey, great speed? I don't see that, maybe 4.48 to 4.52ish which is fine but nothing to rave about. I'm not sure someone who made the decisions he made would be considered a positive in terms of a bump in attendance either. He was a nice WR at OSU but not so much so that people are gonna go out of their way to see him. I wouldn't hate him being drafted in the 4th but I'd think/hope we could do better there in the draft and at the position in general. If they are in the market for a #2 come draft time (I doubt it I think Simpson will get re-signed or Manningham will be the guy) I suspect you would see someone drafted much sooner, no later than the 2nd but most likely with their 2nd 1st (Floyd or Wright would likely be a target then IMO).

Posey would be a good candidate to replace Caldwell who unless he takes a miniscule contract is probably going bye-bye.

Floyd carries more baggage than Posey. He may not be a burner, but Posey is faster than most of the recievers projected to go in the first or second rounds IE: Sanu, Jeffrey, Blackmon. I am not saying he is a guy that should be drafted in the first three rounds, but he is worth a look if he gets to round four or beyond. I think he can develop into a decent #2, but that would be his peak in my opinion. I still think having local guys can be a minor draw for some fans, but that is just my opinion. Of course all of this could be pointless depending on what they do in free agency.

[izzy's dad]

... I just did some research and I from what it looks like most of the recievers in this years draft are not your typical 4.3-4.4 guys. I was wrong when I said that Posey is faster than all of those guys. He is right around a 4.5 along with Blackmon, Jeffery, Floyd, and Sanu. Wright has those guys beat by a mile, he seems to be the only WR capable of running a 4.3 this year. All of this of course could go right out the window next week at the combine. So I will eat my serving of crow, but I still think around the 4-5 round range is where Posey should go.

EDIT: In my defense Posey did look a lot more agile than the other two guys (Floyd, Sanu), but that was in shorts and a t shirt. Also, he appeared to be in much better shape than Floyd and Sanu.