2012 Bengals discussion

[Boss-Hog]

All,

Please use this thread for all 2012 Bengals-related discussion.

[traderumor]

I don't care which individual player they draft, just continue the pattern of the last two drafts.

Also, please get some DBs that can play immediately or a potentially good team is going to underachieve because of poor pass coverage in a pass happy era.

Oh, and Mike Brown is to blame for anything that goes wrong, somebody else must be given the credit if something is positive

[texasdave]

The Bengals just finished hosting free agent CB Stanford Routt this weekend for a visit. Routt was released last Thursday just one year into a $54.5 million, five-year contract, which ended his seven-year tenure in Oakland as the team heads in a new direction. He’s already visited the Buffalo Bills on Tuesday, the Kansas City Chiefs on Wednesday and Thursday.Now according to Profootballtalk.com, Routt is ready to decide which team he will sign with after cancelling his upcoming visit with the Cowboys. Since he is ready to decide right after his visit in Cincinnati, one would have to think that bolds well for the Bengals.

[Boss-Hog]

Routt signed with Kansas City.

[texasdave]

Stanford re-Routts to KC.

[Stray]

According to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, it is highly unlikely that the Steelers will use the franchise tag on Mike Wallace. Not that surprising since they're already 11 million over the cap.

He could become a Bengal, though we would lose a 1st round pick. Considering we have 2, and that we could really use another WR, this has to happen. We have plenty of cap space to make this move. AJ Green, Mike Wallace and Jermaine Gresham?? Sign me up.

[HotCorner]

Originally Posted by Stray

According to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, it is highly unlikely that the Steelers will use the franchise tag on Mike Wallace. Not that surprising since they're already 11 million over the cap.

He could become a Bengal, though we would lose a 1st round pick. Considering we have 2, and that we could really use another WR, this has to happen. We have plenty of cap space to make this move. AJ Green, Mike Wallace and Jermaine Gresham?? Sign me up.

I couldn't agree more.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Stray

According to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, it is highly unlikely that the Steelers will use the franchise tag on Mike Wallace. Not that surprising since they're already 11 million over the cap.

He could become a Bengal, though we would lose a 1st round pick. Considering we have 2, and that we could really use another WR, this has to happen. We have plenty of cap space to make this move. AJ Green, Mike Wallace and Jermaine Gresham?? Sign me up.

If they want to keep him they ought to use the tag. If they don't mind losing him then a tender is a fine option but it won't make him cheaper to keep. A tender opens them up to matching another offer and a team with plenty of cap room can offer a very unfriendly cap number

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by Stray

According to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, it is highly unlikely that the Steelers will use the franchise tag on Mike Wallace. Not that surprising since they're already 11 million over the cap.

He could become a Bengal, though we would lose a 1st round pick. Considering we have 2, and that we could really use another WR, this has to happen. We have plenty of cap space to make this move. AJ Green, Mike Wallace and Jermaine Gresham?? Sign me up.

If you sign Wallace it isn't gonna come cheap and so the team that does should ask itself if they can take FULL advantage of his talents. Not sure the Bengals can say that. I like Dalton quite a bit but not sure his arm is ever gonna be good enough to take advantage of Wallace's best asset, speed. I think the Bengals will look elsewhere for their other starting WR (Manningham or re-up Simpson is what I expect). And put their dollars towards the OL and the running game with an eye towards the defensive back 7.

I love Wallace's ability and would support the move even though I am not overly optimistic about how well it would turn out. I think someone like Cleveland (if they draft RG3) or N.E. will make that play and as well they should. Bad news for Pittsburgh because IMO Wallace makes that offense work.

**Oops, check that I guess Cleveland would have to give up the #4 pick for Wallace so that probably isn't likely to happen.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

If they want to keep him they ought to use the tag. If they don't mind losing him then a tender is a fine option but it won't make him cheaper to keep. A tender opens them up to matching another offer and a team with plenty of cap room can offer a very unfriendly cap number

They really have no choice. 9 million over I think and the Franchise tag for a WR is like 9 million so at minimum they'd have to clear 18 million and of course they like everyone have holes to fill beyond Wallace. If they have any chance keeping him they'd have to really strip it down. Personally I think they should he's that valuable to them or anyone for that matter.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

They really have no choice. 9 million over I think and the Franchise tag for a WR is like 9 million so at minimum they'd have to clear 18 million and of course they like everyone have holes to fill beyond Wallace. If they have any chance keeping him they'd have to really strip it down. Personally I think they should he's that valuable to them or anyone for that matter.

My point is if they have to match another team's offer they'll likely have a cap number around 9 mill anyway

[Stray]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

If you sign Wallace it isn't gonna come cheap and so the team that does should ask itself if they can take FULL advantage of his talents. Not sure the Bengals can say that. I like Dalton quite a bit but not sure his arm is ever gonna be good enough to take advantage of Wallace's best asset, speed. I think the Bengals will look elsewhere for their other starting WR (Manningham or re-up Simpson is what I expect). And put their dollars towards the OL and the running game with an eye towards the defensive back 7.

I love Wallace's ability and would support the move even though I am not overly optimistic about how well it would turn out. I think someone like Cleveland (if they draft RG3) or N.E. will make that play and as well they should. Bad news for Pittsburgh because IMO Wallace makes that offense work.

**Oops, check that I guess Cleveland would have to give up the #4 pick for Wallace so that probably isn't likely to happen.

I guess it comes down to how he's viewed by our FO and coaches. If he's really looked at as just a one trick pony (go routes) then I agree it's probably not the best fit here. I will say that Dalton has a bigger arm than I thought he did, but most of his deep passes this year were purposely underthrown because of safties and then AJ Green would always win jump balls. I'm not sure Mike Wallace is that kinda receiver.

I think Wallace is a little more than that, and having him lined up opposite Green would put defenses in a real bind. You can't really lean all coverages either way in that situation.

I've heard NE has been really eyeballing Brandon Lloyd as well. I think either receiver would be a good fit there, but Wallace is the deep threat that they don't have.

I guess the good news is that there are some guys available out there, and even if we don't land Wallace there's plenty of FA talent left. But still, 60 mil under the cap, I'm trying.

[Benihana]

My Bengals plan for this offseason:

1. See what happens with the Saints situation. If they don't sign Brees before FA begins, they'll have to franchise him leaving Colston and Nicks unprotected. I'd monitor the situation and make a play for whichever one we can get on a better deal. If they do sign Brees before FA begins, they can use the Franchise tag on either Nicks or Colston. I'd then pursue whichever doesn't have the tag. Nicks is the best OL on the market and he plays our biggest position of need, and Colston is the exact kind of receiver we need- big possession guy that can also be an occasional deep threat. However I wouldn't give him top 5 WR money.

2. Pursue Michael Bush if he doesn't get the Franchise tag. As we've discussed, he is a local guy who is quite versatile and has proven himself despite not accumulating a lot of wear and tear. That said, he is best used as a complimentary player, and would give us the flexibility to "wait and see" if Richardson falls to 17. If he does, take him and you have one of the best dynamic-duos of a running game in the league, bowever you don't have to overpay and trade up to get him, as we'd be nowhere near as desperate for an RB. If Bush is franchised or we can't get him, pursue Peyton Hillis on a one year deal and employ the same strategy regarding Richardson.

3. If you cannot sign Colston or Nicks, sign Ben Grubbs.

4. If we've only signed one of the above FA (Grubbs/Nicks/Colston/Bush/Hillis) then sign LaRon Landry. If we've already signed two of those guys, we're probably done with impact guys in FA. Regardless, I would definitely sign at least two of: Grubbs/Nicks/Colston/Bush/Hillis/Landry. If we can sign three of them, we get an A+

5. DRAFT: If we do NOT sign a RB like Bush or Hillis, wait to see if Richardson drops out of the top 10. If he does, trade up using our 21 pick and 2nd rounder and draft him. Then, trade down from 17 to a spot in the mid-to-late 20s and pickup the 2nd rounder that we lost. Draft the BPA at that point, especially if one of Barron/Kirkpatrick/Floyd/Glenn are still on the board. One of those guys + Richardson would be a great haul for the 1st round, especially with 2-3 of the FA I mentioned signed.

If we DO sign Bush or Hillis, just be patient and draft the two BPAs from Richardson/DeCastro/Barron/Kirkpatrick/Floyd/Glenn. Then draft the absolute BPA in the 2nd round, almost regardless of position (except QB). At that point we are just building depth.

IN SUMMARY
1. Sign 2-3 FA from the list of M.Bush/Landry/Nicks/Grubbs/Colston/Hillis (the latter on a 1 year deal only)
2. Draft Trent Richardson (if he's there) and/or BPA from DeCastro/Glenn/Kirkpatrick/Barron/Floyd

Thoughts?

[Mario-Rijo]

Like to see the Bengals do the following:

Preferential Re-signs in Bold Red others who should be kept short of a better replacement in basic Red
2012 Bengal FA's
Cedric Benson - RB
Andre Caldwell - WR
Anthony Collins - OT
Jon Fanene - DL
Kelly Jennings - CB
Brandon Johnson - OLB
Adam (Pac-Man) Jones - CB
Manny Lawson - OLB
Nate Livings - OG
Mike McGlynn - OC/OG
Reggie Nelson - FS
Mike Nugent - K
Dennis Roland - OT
Frostee Rucker - DE/DL
Jerome Simpson - WR
Pat Sims - DT
Bobbie Williams - OG

RFA's
Clark Harris - LS/TE
Nick Hayden - DL
Chris Pressley - FB
Dan Skuta - LB

Exclusive Rights FA's
Jeromy Miles - DB (FS)
Cedric Peerman - RB
Vincent Rey - LB

Not sure I wouldn't re-sign Simpson I probably would I think he still has upside and would come at a fair price. But I'd like someone who better fits the offense. Someone with surer hands, better after the catch and with maybe a bit more speed (Manningham being my choice). I'd re-sign any of the OG's for the right role (backups all of them IMO) and right price for such a role. The same with Adam Jones, as a 3rd/4th corner and a punt returner but at the right price and only if we don't sign a better 3rd corner who isn't gonna get burned deep. Don't know enough about Nick Hayden to make a determination on him could be ousted by draft choices anyhow.

Cuts
Chris Crocker - DB - He's toast
Robert Geathers - DE - 4.2 million salary in '12, last year of deal
Taylor Mays - DB - IMO Not an NFL safety

Priority FA's to sign
Ben Grubbs - LG (Bal.) Rather Nicks but he is likely to be off the board
Tyvon Branch - SS (Oak.) - Rather have Griffin but trying to be a bit more realistic
Chilo Rachal - RG (S.F.) - Needs some work pass blocking but awesome run blocker already and seemingly has the ability to pass block quite well.
Mario Manningham - WR (NYG) - Fits the offense really well and cost shouldn't be prohibitive.

I'd love to go for the big names but I'm fine with these guys, preferably no one worse. 4 starters allows for a best player available approach to the draft.

Early round picks
1A - Trent Richardson - RB Bama, D. DeCastro OG, Janoris Jenkins CB
1B - DeCastro OG, Jenkins CB, L. Miller RB Miami
2B - Doug Martin RB, Mark Barron S, LB/DL

It's a bit early on the draft choices as I like to see the combine numbers and such 1st but that is what I am thinking at this point depending on how it falls.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by Benihana

My Bengals plan for this offseason:

1. See what happens with the Saints situation. If they don't sign Brees before FA begins, they'll have to franchise him leaving Colston and Nicks unprotected. I'd monitor the situation and make a play for whichever one we can get on a better deal. If they do sign Brees before FA begins, they can use the Franchise tag on either Nicks or Colston. I'd then pursue whichever doesn't have the tag. Nicks is the best OL on the market and he plays our biggest position of need, and Colston is the exact kind of receiver we need- big possession guy that can also be an occasional deep threat. However I wouldn't give him top 5 WR money.

2. Pursue Michael Bush if he doesn't get the Franchise tag. As we've discussed, he is a local guy who is quite versatile and has proven himself despite not accumulating a lot of wear and tear. That said, he is best used as a complimentary player, and would give us the flexibility to "wait and see" if Richardson falls to 17. If he does, take him and you have one of the best dynamic-duos of a running game in the league, bowever you don't have to overpay and trade up to get him, as we'd be nowhere near as desperate for an RB. If Bush is franchised or we can't get him, pursue Peyton Hillis on a one year deal and employ the same strategy regarding Richardson.

3. If you cannot sign Colston or Nicks, sign Ben Grubbs.

4. If we've only signed one of the above FA (Grubbs/Nicks/Colston/Bush/Hillis) then sign LaRon Landry. If we've already signed two of those guys, we're probably done with impact guys in FA. Regardless, I would definitely sign at least two of: Grubbs/Nicks/Colston/Bush/Hillis/Landry. If we can sign three of them, we get an A+

5. DRAFT: If we do NOT sign a RB like Bush or Hillis, wait to see if Richardson drops out of the top 10. If he does, trade up using our 21 pick and 2nd rounder and draft him. Then, trade down from 17 to a spot in the mid-to-late 20s and pickup the 2nd rounder that we lost. Draft the BPA at that point, especially if one of Barron/Kirkpatrick/Floyd/Glenn are still on the board. One of those guys + Richardson would be a great haul for the 1st round, especially with 2-3 of the FA I mentioned signed.

If we DO sign Bush or Hillis, just be patient and draft the two BPAs from Richardson/DeCastro/Barron/Kirkpatrick/Floyd/Glenn. Then draft the absolute BPA in the 2nd round, almost regardless of position (except QB). At that point we are just building depth.

IN SUMMARY
1. Sign 2-3 FA from the list of M.Bush/Landry/Nicks/Grubbs/Colston/Hillis (the latter on a 1 year deal only)
2. Draft Trent Richardson (if he's there) and/or BPA from DeCastro/Glenn/Kirkpatrick/Barron/Floyd

Thoughts?

Think I'd rather have Mike Tolbert than either of those 2 RB's. Bush is a decent backup but I don't think much of Hillis he IMO has been exposed as a RB. Neither make for a good RB if they have to start. Like Mario M. over Colston as I think Colston might have a bit higher price tag. Like Michael Griffin ever so slightly over Landry simply due to health issues. Wouldn't draft Kirkpatrick at all, not seeing him doing well in the NFL at CB. Barron only in the 2nd IMO.