Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

[Scrap Irony]

Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966

I understand your position (and loyalty!). Perhaps he just recruits bad apples? Like Jim Tressel. Of course watching over 15 guys can be as tough as watching over 100 or so. But I jest, WMR. I do not want to make this a us vs. them thing. I am pretty sure there are a lot people like myself that are suspicious of John. It could be bogus and that is a shame.

Is it loyalty to expect some evidence other than the twin fallacies of argument from ignorance (assuming a claim is true because it cannot be proven as false) and cum hoc ergo propter hoc (a faulty assumption that correlation between two variables implies that one causes the other, i.e., because both UMass and Memphis have had Final Fours taken away, Calipari must have cheated).

I like Cal, true. But I love proof, evidence, and logic.

And, so far, only one side of this "argument" has provided any. And, while making baseless claims might be a side effect of the internet world (and sports' sites specifically), I'd expect more from knowledgeable fans.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

Is it loyalty to expect some evidence other than the twin fallacies of argument from ignorance (assuming a claim is true because it cannot be proven as false) and cum hoc ergo propter hoc (a faulty assumption that correlation between two variables implies that one causes the other, i.e., because both UMass and Memphis have had Final Fours taken away, Calipari must have cheated).

I like Cal, true. But I love proof, evidence, and logic.

And, so far, only one side of this "argument" has provided any. And, while making baseless claims might be a side effect of the internet world (and sports' sites specifically), I'd expect more from knowledgeable fans.

Scrap, I appreciate the dedication to the facts. And I don't make an accusation, but I think at the very least the situations surrounding Calipari(if not directly involving him) at UMass and Memphis eliminate the benefit of the doubt that perhaps other coaches receive. The NCAA doesn't vacate final four runs over an impermissable phone call(Maybe for a text message.)


That much being said, it's not like people haven't tried. WMR and I went back and forth a few summers ago when the NY Times reporter was investigating/reporting on the investigation of Eric Bledsoe. Again there seemed to be a lot of smoke but no fire. If there was truly something damning, it would have been found by now.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by WMR

Buckeye fans sharing their suspicions about other coaches/programs is awfully cute.

Why? Their coaches have been held accountable for violations when they have occurred. The story on Calipari is that he slips away quietly and lets his former program and others take the fall.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by WMR

Well, he's been personally exonerated by the NCAA for the situations at UMASS and Memphis and doesn't have a single NCAA infraction on his record, so I guess I'll just have to stick with the facts until some actual evidence is presented.

I'm sure Cal was the one who introduced Camby to that agent and told him to accept money... of course, Cal was also the one who turned his own program into the NCAA. Weird fella!

And then playing the best player in the nation after he was cleared to play by the NCAA.... TWICE! No other coach in the country would have done that... no way, no how.

Folks used to defend Tressel in the same way. I'd be careful, you might look foolish later.

[Captain13]

I thought this was the Indiana thread.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by traderumor

Why? Their coaches have been held accountable for violations when they have occurred. The story on Calipari is that he slips away quietly and lets his former program and others take the fall.

You're aware that Memphis offered Cal more money than UK to try and get him to stay?

[redsfanmia]

Originally Posted by WMR

You're aware that Memphis offered Cal more money than UK to try and get him to stay?

I have heard rumblings the Cal has interest in the Knicks job (talk radio nothing concrete) any rumors about him leaving or problems at UK?

[Assembly Hall]

I am not Cal's judge nor jury. I find him to be a very articulate individual and love his interviews. He might not be the guy that is in trouble, but he has it pretty close to him. And the fact that it happened at two schools so far leads to alot of scrutiny.

As I said I really like him. But unfortunately I dislike UK. Nothing to do with the school or its fans. Not about the players or the Coach. It is all about the rivalry that was as good as any in the country in the day, and is being rekindled now between my beloved Hoosiers and the Cats.

John Wooden didnt get in trouble while he was at UCLA. But yet, there was a lot of improprieties going on there. Cal has vacated 2 FF's. I will continue to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I hope for UK and its fans, that what happened at UMass and Memphis doesnt happen in Lexington. Because where I am from, 3 strikes and you're out.

[redsfanmia]

Originally Posted by Assembly Hall

I am not Cal's judge nor jury. I find him to be a very articulate individual and love his interviews. He might not be the guy that is in trouble, but he has it pretty close to him. And the fact that it happened at two schools so far leads to alot of scrutiny.

As I said I really like him. But unfortunately I dislike UK. Nothing to do with the school or its fans. Not about the players or the Coach. It is all about the rivalry that was as good as any in the country in the day, and is being rekindled now between my beloved Hoosiers and the Cats.

John Wooden didnt get in trouble while he was at UCLA. But yet, there was a lot of improprieties going on there. Cal has vacated 2 FF's. I will continue to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I hope for UK and its fans, that what happened at UMass and Memphis doesnt happen in Lexington. Because where I am from, 3 strikes and you're out.

Most successful coaches are a little dirty, Wooden is considered a saint and he looked the other way when it came to Sam Gilbert.

[Scrap Irony]

Originally Posted by Assembly Hall

I am not Cal's judge nor jury. I find him to be a very articulate individual and love his interviews. He might not be the guy that is in trouble, but he has it pretty close to him. And the fact that it happened at two schools so far leads to alot of scrutiny.

And, if with that extra scrutiny, nothing has been found, when does the extra scrutiny end?

[WMR]

Originally Posted by redsfanmia

I have heard rumblings the Cal has interest in the Knicks job (talk radio nothing concrete) any rumors about him leaving or problems at UK?

No problems at UK as far as I know, but Cal has been associated with NBA jobs every year he has been at UK, and I'm guessing they will continue until the day he actually does leave/retire.

Cal is the "sexy" pick from the current rank of college coaches to go to the NBA and I'm guessing the rumors will never cease.

[Assembly Hall]

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

And, if with that extra scrutiny, nothing has been found, when does the extra scrutiny end?

That's a good question Scrap. For me, it would be Cal sticking around at UK without any rules violations for awhile. And when he does choose to leave, there arent any "messes" in the wake.

[Assembly Hall]

Originally Posted by Captain13

I thought this was the Indiana thread.

If we are real quiet, what do you say we sneak over to the UK thread and pollute it with a lot of talk about IU!!!!!!!!!!! LOL. Seriously, it is all good to me. Threads sometimes get off what the original author posted about, simply because the responses take it in a different direction.

[WVRed]

Originally Posted by WMR

No problems at UK as far as I know, but Cal has been associated with NBA jobs every year he has been at UK, and I'm guessing they will continue until the day he actually does leave/retire.

Cal is the "sexy" pick from the current rank of college coaches to go to the NBA and I'm guessing the rumors will never cease.

I'm one of the few UK fans who feel this way, but I think this is Cal's last year at Kentucky if he wins it all. It's the perfect storm:

1. This team is likely to lose a LOT of players. Miller and Vargas to graduation, as well as the possibility of Lamb, TJ, MKG, Davis, and Teague all going pro. This team will return Kyle Wiltjer as the only player to log significant minutes on this team. Ryan Harrow will be eligible after sitting out from transferring from NC State, and Jon Hood is recovering from a torn ACL.

2. In addition to players, the coaching staff is in flux. Kenny Payne and Orlando Antigua are in consideration for head coaching jobs and that decision becomes easier if Kentucky wins it all. Last I've heard is Payne to Mississippi State and Antigua to Duquesne. John Robic will be the only one on staff and he will follow Cal wherever he goes.

If you think about it, Cal is losing up to SEVEN players and two top assistants. Not to mention the teams Cal has had in the past have been a mixture of upperclassmen and young players. There is no Patrick Patterson, Perry Stevenson, Ramon Harris, Josh Harrellson, or Darius Miller on next years team, unless you count Jon Hood, who will be a redshirt junior. I understand the recruiting class Cal has coming in (potentially) next season, but this is why I think the NBA has more allure:

1. Cal is not the same coach as Rick Pitino when Pitino left for the Celtics. In order to be a successful NBA coach, you have to have a "niche". Cal didn't have that with the Nets and Pitino still doesn't have one, just motivation. You can motivate a kid with a scholarship. You have to work harder or have a system to get millionaires who make more than the coach to work. Cal has that now with the Dribble Drive.

2. If Cal does leave for the NBA I think it will be two teams, either the Knicks or the Wizards:

Knicks: I know Carmelo Anthony is example A, B, C, and D as to why Cal won't work, but this team is BUILT for the dribble drive, especially with Jeremy Lin running the point. Do you think Cal wouldn't like to work with Linsanity? Especially with Carmelo and Stoudemire waiting to knock down open shots? Not to mention the Knicks are one of the elite teams in the league, and Cal has a big ego.

Wizards: Washington has a very good chance of landing a top 4 pick. They already have John Wall, one of the rising stars in the league. Wouldn't you love to be a coach and have an inside-out combination of John Wall and Anthony Davis?

Thats why I think if Cal leaves, this will be the year. If he doesn't, he may not get an opportunity to do so again. If he did something and is skipping town, we will discuss that when something comes to light.

[Hoosier Red]

Well that was intense in exhausted and there's still a half to go. Way ford with a beast effort to keep IU in it