2012 College Coaching Carousel

[Assembly Hall]

Good stuff medford, I really enjoyed reading that.

You are absolutely right about timing.

I really dont know how many mid-major head coaches have made the jump to big time programs and had success. Bill Self, Steve Alford, Matt Painter, Kevin Stallings, etc.... But I would presume more have failed....Todd Licklighter, Barry Collier, John Pelfrey, Dan Munson...etc.... Just throwing names out there off the top of my head that I am familiar with.

I really like what Matta did. He inheritated a good program at Butler. Continued with their success. Jumped to Xavier, once again taking over a good program. Excelled with their success. Jumped to OSU, a program that was reeling and built them to their former days.

Matta sort of "climbed the ladder". I really think that there are stepping stones for Groce available this year. If the guy can coach, he will succeed. And then become even a bigger comodity.

I dont know of all the schools that have vacancies right now, but I know there are a few out there that would be a step above Ohio and a step below Illinois.

But at the end of the day sometimes it becomes about timing and money.

[Hoosier Red]

That's tough metric though AH. Most coaching hires fail. I don't think coaches who come from mid major schools are more prone to failure than any other type of hire.

Any coach who makes it as a head coach at even the worst mid major school has beaten the odds to get that far. So if you're at a mid major school and being offered a top level job, there's no reason to think you'll be Todd Lickliter.

I do think it makes sense for a mid level coach to gauge how serious the top level program is in terms of resources anadministration support is going to be. John Groce can compete in the MAC with a mid level budget, but I don't think he can compete in the B1G with a mid level budget. In fact, if they aren't going to commit to a 1st level committment, it doesn't matter who is coaching. (See Minnesota)

[Assembly Hall]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

That's tough metric though AH. Most coaching hires fail. I don't think coaches who come from mid major schools are more prone to failure than any other type of hire.

Any coach who makes it as a head coach at even the worst mid major school has beaten the odds to get that far. So if you're at a mid major school and being offered a top level job, there's no reason to think you'll be Todd Lickliter.

I do think it makes sense for a mid level coach to gauge how serious the top level program is in terms of resources anadministration support is going to be. John Groce can compete in the MAC with a mid level budget, but I don't think he can compete in the B1G with a mid level budget. In fact, if they aren't going to commit to a 1st level committment, it doesn't matter who is coaching. (See Minnesota)

It seems as though I am going back to the "expectation" card! LOL

Lickliter didnt do his homework very well. He replaced Alford at Iowa. I thought Steve did a great job with the Hawks. But the fans wanted more and basically ran him out of Iowa City. But that's nothing new there....ask Lute Olsen, George Raveling, and Dr. Tom Davis. Lickliter was doomed to fail in an atmosphere where the fan base thinks they should be winning 20 games every year and competing for a national championship all the time.

Minnesota has tasted success in the past but it was always with a black cloud hanging over it. Munson, came in there and had mild success. But the fans started wanting more. Tubby comes in with a heckuva resume, has them being competitive but they still want more.

To me Illinois, is no different than the two above. Seems as though the fans think they are some sort of perenniel power, which is not the case. I just hope that this is not kiss of death for Groce.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Assembly Hall

It seems as though I am going back to the "expectation" card! LOL

Lickliter didnt do his homework very well. He replaced Alford at Iowa. I thought Steve did a great job with the Hawks. But the fans wanted more and basically ran him out of Iowa City. But that's nothing new there....ask Lute Olsen, George Raveling, and Dr. Tom Davis. Lickliter was doomed to fail in an atmosphere where the fan base thinks they should be winning 20 games every year and competing for a national championship all the time.

Minnesota has tasted success in the past but it was always with a black cloud hanging over it. Munson, came in there and had mild success. But the fans started wanting more. Tubby comes in with a heckuva resume, has them being competitive but they still want more.

To me Illinois, is no different than the two above. Seems as though the fans think they are some sort of perenniel power, which is not the case. I just hope that this is not kiss of death for Groce.

I think Illinois is a decent job. In the BIG I would rank it behind MSU, OSU, and Illinois. I think the Job itself could be comparable to Wisconsin and maybe a little behind Michigan. I think the fatal lure of Illinois is Chicago, an area that no one has a stranglehold on, but everyone thinks Illinois should. Its why DePaul has always had a lure, but Chicago really is up for grabs. Heck Thad Matta has recruited that area hard and pretty well recently.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by dabvu2498

Turns out Cuonzo Martin might want the Illinois job. That would be a good hire for them.

And it would please me greatly to have him gone from the SEC. He knows what he's doing.

Appreciate the compliment. I hope he stays at UT awhile

[Assembly Hall]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

I think Illinois is a decent job. In the BIG I would rank it behind MSU, OSU, and Illinois. I think the Job itself could be comparable to Wisconsin and maybe a little behind Michigan. I think the fatal lure of Illinois is Chicago, an area that no one has a stranglehold on, but everyone thinks Illinois should. Its why DePaul has always had a lure, but Chicago really is up for grabs. Heck Thad Matta has recruited that area hard and pretty well recently.

I think you have a typo in there. I think you meant to say MSU, OSU, and Indiana?

I look at it from my viewpoint and in my lifetime. Every school in the B1G has been in the Final Four minus Nortwestern(never been in the NCAA), Penn State and Nebraska(the two newest members). To me that means there are 9 decent jobs within the conference.

If I were to rank them I would put Indiana 1st due to the fact they won championships with two different coaches and reached another championship with a third. Michigan St. 2nd for winning 2 titles with different coaches. Ohio St. 3rd. Michigan 4th. Purdue 5th. Wisconsin 6th......they won a title in the early days and went to a FF under Dick Bennett but quite frankly Bo is the one that has them as an annual Top 25 team. Illinois would be 7th.....ahead of Iowa and Minnesota. Just my thoughts.

Illinois just cant get Chicago kids. They never have. Chicago kids seem to have no bond with the Illini. Now if they developed some sort of pipeline to that region, then they would be a power. But then again if St. John's got all the NYC kids they would be a power.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Assembly Hall

I think you have a typo in there. I think you meant to say MSU, OSU, and Indiana?

I look at it from my viewpoint and in my lifetime. Every school in the B1G has been in the Final Four minus Nortwestern(never been in the NCAA), Penn State and Nebraska(the two newest members). To me that means there are 9 decent jobs within the conference.

If I were to rank them I would put Indiana 1st due to the fact they won championships with two different coaches and reached another championship with a third. Michigan St. 2nd for winning 2 titles with different coaches. Ohio St. 3rd. Michigan 4th. Purdue 5th. Wisconsin 6th......they won a title in the early days and went to a FF under Dick Bennett but quite frankly Bo is the one that has them as an annual Top 25 team. Illinois would be 7th.....ahead of Iowa and Minnesota. Just my thoughts.

Illinois just cant get Chicago kids. They never have. Chicago kids seem to have no bond with the Illini. Now if they developed some sort of pipeline to that region, then they would be a power. But then again if St. John's got all the NYC kids they would be a power.

I meant Indiana and not Illinois, you are right.

Biased huh? I would rank OSU and MSU the top two programs in the BIG and it isn't even close. MSU is the most recent champion and they won it in 2000 (?). Incoming freshmen were 5 or 6 at the time. If you mention Bob Knight most of those kids would say old crumudgeon and may mostly remember Texas Tech. OSU and MSU place kids in the pros, who was IU's most recent pro, Jared Jeffries? I can really only speak to OSU's facilities but they are comparable with the NBA, very few teams can offer that.

Dwight K Schrute is a good coach for IU, but I would rank them behind OSU and MSU and its not really close. The one thing Illinois has going for it is they aren't on NCAA probation (like IU and OSU when Matta and Crean took over) and they have a nice big man, if he stays.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

I meant Indiana and not Illinois, you are right.

Biased huh? I would rank OSU and MSU the top two programs in the BIG and it isn't even close. MSU is the most recent champion and they won it in 2000 (?). Incoming freshmen were 5 or 6 at the time. If you mention Bob Knight most of those kids would say old crumudgeon and may mostly remember Texas Tech. OSU and MSU place kids in the pros, who was IU's most recent pro, Jared Jeffries? I can really only speak to OSU's facilities but they are comparable with the NBA, very few teams can offer that.

Dwight K Schrute is a good coach for IU, but I would rank them behind OSU and MSU and its not really close. The one thing Illinois has going for it is they aren't on NCAA probation (like IU and OSU when Matta and Crean took over) and they have a nice big man, if he stays.

In terms of a natural recruiting base and resources, I'd probably put IU ahead of Michigan State for only one reason. Because Michigan puts a boat load of money into its basketball program, it's probably more of a threat to MSU's ability to lock down the state than Purdue is to Indiana. Of course that's dependent on Michign getting it's stuff together which they've alternately done and not done for the past 20 years.


I agree that because tOSU has no true rival in many of the cities in Ohio,(even UC recruits more on the East coast then the rest of Ohio) and has more money to dedicate to basketball then pretty much anyone else, it's the top job for an aspiring coach.

IU has history, and a dedicated fan base, but almost no money outside of what it can generate for itself.

[Hoosier Red]

In terms of Illinois, I think it has all the potential to be a great great job.
That's been hampered by substandard coaches over the last 20 years. The only above average coach to man the home sidelines was Bill Self, and he was gone after 3 seasons.

[dabvu2498]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Appreciate the compliment. I hope he stays at UT awhile

We will see if he can recruit at a high level but you certainly had to be impressed with the results he got from that collection of talent there this year.

In other coaching news, Miss State is pursuing Dan Muller, assistant at Vanderbilt.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...sissippi-state

I like Muller as an assistant, but that's a jump into shark-infested waters as your first head coaching gig.

[Assembly Hall]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

I meant Indiana and not Illinois, you are right.

Biased huh? I would rank OSU and MSU the top two programs in the BIG and it isn't even close. MSU is the most recent champion and they won it in 2000 (?). Incoming freshmen were 5 or 6 at the time. If you mention Bob Knight most of those kids would say old crumudgeon and may mostly remember Texas Tech. OSU and MSU place kids in the pros, who was IU's most recent pro, Jared Jeffries? I can really only speak to OSU's facilities but they are comparable with the NBA, very few teams can offer that.

Dwight K Schrute is a good coach for IU, but I would rank them behind OSU and MSU and its not really close. The one thing Illinois has going for it is they aren't on NCAA probation (like IU and OSU when Matta and Crean took over) and they have a nice big man, if he stays.

LOL.....yes I am biased. But I also look at history. IU never was a school for having successful guys in the pros. That is another topic for a different day. You can throw Bob Knight out of the equation, they won two titles before him. IU has 5 titles......they came in 4 different decades. They were also in Final Fours in another 2 different decades. MSU wasnt nothing until Magic Johnson showed up. Ohio St was a power in the early 60's then fell off the map. But I will grant you in this day and age that MSU and OSU look to be powerhouses, but it is because of their coaches that are in place now. Certain schools, it doesnt matter who the coach is.......IU is one of them. Along with UCLA, North Carolina, Kentucky, and Kansas.

[Assembly Hall]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

In terms of Illinois, I think it has all the potential to be a great great job.
That's been hampered by substandard coaches over the last 20 years. The only above average coach to man the home sidelines was Bill Self, and he was gone after 3 seasons.

Hmmmmmm........Lon Kruger wasnt too shabby.

[cumberlandreds]

Originally Posted by Assembly Hall

Certain schools, it doesnt matter who the coach is.......IU is one of them. Along with UCLA, North Carolina, Kentucky, and Kansas.

Billy Gillispie begs to disagree. Also Matt Doherty and a host of coaches at UCLA.

[Assembly Hall]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

In terms of a natural recruiting base and resources, I'd probably put IU ahead of Michigan State for only one reason. Because Michigan puts a boat load of money into its basketball program, it's probably more of a threat to MSU's ability to lock down the state than Purdue is to Indiana. Of course that's dependent on Michign getting it's stuff together which they've alternately done and not done for the past 20 years.


I agree that because tOSU has no true rival in many of the cities in Ohio,(even UC recruits more on the East coast then the rest of Ohio) and has more money to dedicate to basketball then pretty much anyone else, it's the top job for an aspiring coach.

IU has history, and a dedicated fan base, but almost no money outside of what it can generate for itself.

Very valid thoughts.

[Assembly Hall]

Originally Posted by cumberlandreds

Billy Gillispie begs to disagree. Also Matt Doherty and a host of coaches at UCLA.

Well let me see......UK Hmmmmmmmm Adolph Rupp, Joe B. Hall, Eddie Sutton, Rick Pitino, Tubby Smith, and now Cal. UNC Hmmmmmmmmmm Frank McGuire, Dean Smith, Bill Guthridge(sp?), Roy Williams. UCLA......John Wooden, Larry Brown, Steve Lavin, Bill Howland(sp?), I know I am missing a few on that one. All of these coaches had good runs. Doherty had one good year with Carolina. Billy was just the wrong choice at UK.