Chevy Volt: 1 Year Later?

[JaxRed]

Originally Posted by durl

I would also like to know the answer to this question. It still costs money to make the car go.

It has had a negligible impact on my bills. They are the same as last years. I held my breath the first couple months..... there was no noticeable difference.

I'm sure it's costing something.... but it ain't much

[Spazzrico]

Originally Posted by durl

How would the rising cost of electricity affect this graph? If fossil-fuel plants continue to disappear (as planned) and more power is supplied by renewable plants, the costs are going to inevitably rise quite steeply.

Not necessarily. Renewables may cost more now, but economies of scale will continue to drive down costs in addition to whatever subsidies provided by the Gov't. Example, China through direct subsidies cratered the price of silicon (This is the reason Solyndra's product no longer has viability-they were betting on high prices because their's didn't use silicon (cylindrical copper, gallium, indium diselenide instead). Wind power costs are also falling. Also we are about to see our first new U.S. nuclear plants in decades here in SC.

[paulrichjr]

Originally Posted by jojo

Does the calculus change with $4+ gallon gas?

I am not sure that the numbers I am using are correct but in passing over the years I have heard the following numbers and it has caused me to not consider a Volt.

From what I have heard it costs around $1.50 per day to charge the Volt. After going around 40 miles on a charge the Volt switches to a gasoline and then only gets around 40-45 miles per gallon (again this is working off of memory so I may be wrong). That leads me to assume that you are saving around $2.50 for the first gallon. ($4 - $1.50) If you did that everyday you are saving just $900 per year. That is if you drove it everyday that many miles. Now that isn't chump change but consider that a Toyota Prius gets around 50 miles to the gallon and costs thousands less even after the tax incentive. Then you take into account that insuring a Volt is a lot more than insuring other cars that get in the 40 MPG range and you eat up even more of the $900. A Chevy Cruze would costs thousands less upfront, would be much less expensive to insure, would be no trouble to remember to charge each day, would get about the same mileage when on gasoline as the Volt and might end up costing just $900 in fuel costs per year. I can't see the benefit.

[Spazzrico]

Originally Posted by paulrichjr

I am not sure that the numbers I am using are correct but in passing over the years I have heard the following numbers and it has caused me to not consider a Volt.

From what I have heard it costs around $1.50 per day to charge the Volt. After going around 40 miles on a charge the Volt switches to a gasoline and then only gets around 40-45 miles per gallon (again this is working off of memory so I may be wrong). That leads me to assume that you are saving around $2.50 for the first gallon. ($4 - $1.50) If you did that everyday you are saving just $900 per year. That is if you drove it everyday that many miles. Now that isn't chump change but consider that a Toyota Prius gets around 50 miles to the gallon and costs thousands less even after the tax incentive. Then you take into account that insuring a Volt is a lot more than insuring other cars that get in the 40 MPG range and you eat up even more of the $900. A Chevy Cruze would costs thousands less upfront, would be much less expensive to insure, would be no trouble to remember to charge each day, would get about the same mileage when on gasoline as the Volt and might end up costing just $900 in fuel costs per year. I can't see the benefit.

This makes sense if you are commuting more than 40-50 miles round trip on your commute. Anything less, you score with a Volt. Big time. Most Americans are in the score range.

[Spazzrico]

Originally Posted by JaxRed

It has had a negligible impact on my bills. They are the same as last years. I held my breath the first couple months..... there was no noticeable difference.

I'm sure it's costing something.... but it ain't much

Quick question...car batteries are known to take a beating with heat. Any sense yet if heat saps the charge? I'm guessing it hasn't been hot enough yet.

[JaxRed]

I think the Volt gets about 25 miles a gallon in "gas" mode. If you are driving a lot of miles a day, the Volt doesn't make sense. But what if 95% of your driving was to work and back and it was 10 miles each way?

Now you are driving to work and back and using no gas....ever. And you have the freedom to occasionally take longer trips.

For me, the equation was slightly different in the Leaf. It was (officially) 73 miles range. So you could drive 36 miles each way. (In reality, if you drive highway, at highway speeds it will be less, and if you drive "regular" roads at 45-50 it will be higher).

I didn't want a hybrid that still had a gas engine with all the maintenance it requires. I wanted a "pure" electric, and was willing to accept the limitations, because I have a second car. If I need to take a long trip (over 70 miles) I take it.

[JaxRed]

Originally Posted by Spazzrico

Quick question...car batteries are known to take a beating with heat. Any sense yet if heat saps the charge? I'm guessing it hasn't been hot enough yet.

One of the first big Leaf deployment locations has been Arizona. Haven't heard any talk of that. Have heard that COLD weather operations are a major drain.

[RBA]

EPA has Volt gas only MPG to be 37 MPG. Other test have it 30 to 40 mpg. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrol...conomy_testing

[medford]

Something I heard on the radio, talking about Ford's all electric car (no gas option) that Men's Health was using as a test run across the country and working out stopping points, was that a charge cost $2.50ish and was good for 80-100 miles.

I commute 37 miles each way, so at that price, it would cost me roughly $2.50 every day in electic, or $12.50 for 5 days. Throw in a little on the weekend (we generally use my wife's car on the weekend so its not totally fair, but I also go to meetings and what not for work, so I do more than just commute back and forth) and we're talking $15 a week.

Currently, I spend around $50 a week, meaning the Ford version they were talking about would save me roughly $35 a week. 52 weeks a year gives you $1,820 in saving a year.

I'll assume repair/maintance costs are on par (I hear that is not true, but don't know for sure) and if you assume an ownership of 7 years, you'd have a 7 year savings of $12,740 over your ownership period. Then the next question, how do those cars hold up over 7-10 years, which would translate into their resale value and what they're worth when you're looking for your next one.

I think what this tells me, is that it will take $5 a gallon gasoline over an extended period for an all electric car to make sense financially. Of course, I expect the technology to improve over time. I'd also like to know what the general opinion of these cars are in poor winter weather, do any of them have all wheel drive? How do they hold up with a family of 4 or more that are hauling around sporting equipment from game to game?

[JaxRed]

None of them are 4 wheel drive. And Like I said, their range is reduced in cold weather. So since you are at close to max range in regular weather, an EV would not be a good fit for your driving. Unless....... you have a place where you can charge (120V) at work. (hopefully for free). Then it would be awesome.

They would not be great for hauling around a family of four (or more) and stuff. The Leaf will be the roomiest of the Leaf, Focus, Miev, Volt, and storage in the back is just fair. 95% of people that would buy an EV need a backup car. You'd need your backup car to be the "kid hauler".

Repair and Maintenance should be far less on an "pure" EV (not a Volt). Electric Motors are far more reliable and simpler than a gasoline engine.

And.... no oil changes, no timing belts, no tune ups, no air filters, no transmission fluid, no exhaust system.... the list of things it doesn't require just goes on and on.

And I just went over 5,000 miles !!

[JaxRed]

Originally Posted by RBA

EPA has Volt gas only MPG to be 37 MPG. Other test have it 30 to 40 mpg. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrol...conomy_testing

That was better than I remembered. Thanks

[Caveat Emperor]

Bump.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...91304Z20130204

The tepid response to EVs also pushed Nissan's high-profile chief executive, Carlos Ghosn, perhaps the industry's most outspoken proponent of battery cars, to announce in December a major strategic shift toward more mainstream gasoline-electric hybrids, which overcome many of the shortcomings of pure EVs.

The move was widely seen as a tacit acknowledgement by Ghosn that his all-or-nothing, multibillion-dollar bet on EVs is falling far short of his ambition to sell hundreds of thousands of battery-powered Nissan Leafs.

Instead, Nissan plans to follow rival Toyota Motor Co, the world's largest purveyor of hybrids, which now is poised to leapfrog pure EVs altogether to pursue what might be the next big green-tech breakthrough: pollution- and petroleum-free fuel-cell cars that convert hydrogen to electricity.

The article brings up an interesting point -- fleet fuel economy standards are going to force either more EVs on the road (which the public, to this point, has shown little or no desire to own) or a new technological breakthrough before 2020, or most automakers are going to be paying pretty hefty fines in the US and EU.

[JaxRed]

I'll write up my year long review tomorrow.