2012 Bengals discussion

[wolfboy]

Another good read on Burfict: http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/sto...-espn-magazine

[bucksfan2]

I wanted the Bengals to draft Burfict in the 5th or 6th round. He was the guy in the draft who was worthy of a flier being taken on him. The thing is, in a draft if you get 3 starters then you have done a good job. Too often 5th 6th and 7th rounders just don't hang around often enough. You end up with guys like Corey Lynch in the late rounds, guys who you take fliers on. Burfict has more talent than about 6 rounds of drafted guys. I don't worry about the personal issues considering none of them have to deal with breaking the law or getting arrested.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by wolfboy

Another good read on Burfict: http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/sto...-espn-magazine

Great read, thanks.

[sonny]

I'm convinced there's a "Weekend at Bernie's" thing going on with Mike Brown. Who is making these sane decisions?

[wolfboy]

Originally Posted by sonny

I'm convinced there's a "Weekend at Bernie's" thing going on with Mike Brown. Who is making these sane decisions?

Nice.

[Sea Ray]

I must admit that I root for these kinds of guys but if I'm being completely honest, it's for selfish reasons. I want my team to develop this diamond in the rough, not because I'm happy for Vontaze but because I want to think my team is better than your team at finding and developing talent.

Now, have any of these projects ever worked? I would say probably not although I would opine that the Bengals don't win the division in 2005 without Odell Thurmond and Chris Henry. Has PacMan worked out? Not really but I suppose it can be argued that he's a contributor.

As for Vontaze, I'm still not sure if he's going to work. I wish I'd read in that article how his frustration led him to studying extra video and going in for extra work. I think Mike Brown ought to fork out money for him to get a place at Lytle Tower and change his environment as well as keep him close to Paul Brown Stadium. In other words keep him on a short leash. Then work him into the lineup slowly and let him be a head hunter on special teams out of the box. Tell him that he will get more playing time when he earns it and remind him that his position (MLB) is wide open and asking for someone to take it. When he screws up coach him, see if he learns from his mistakes and explain to him that such mistakes are the reason he's not starting. Let's see how he responds to all of that.

I hope he does respond because quite frankly we need head hunters in order to compete in the AFC North. Pittsburgh and Baltimore will hit you in the mouth and when they do, it's nice to have a guy like Burfict to hit back.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

I must admit that I root for these kinds of guys but if I'm being completely honest, it's for selfish reasons. I want my team to develop this diamond in the rough, not because I'm happy for Vontaze but because I want to think my team is better than your team at finding and developing talent.

Now, have any of these projects ever worked? I would say probably not although I would opine that the Bengals don't win the division in 2005 without Odell Thurmond and Chris Henry. Has PacMan worked out? Not really but I suppose it can be argued that he's a contributor.

As for Vontaze, I'm still not sure if he's going to work. I wish I'd read in that article how his frustration led him to studying extra video and going in for extra work. I think Mike Brown ought to fork out money for him to get a place at Lytle Tower and change his environment as well as keep him close to Paul Brown Stadium. In other words keep him on a short leash. Then work him into the lineup slowly and let him be a head hunter on special teams out of the box. Tell him that he will get more playing time when he earns it and remind him that his position (MLB) is wide open and asking for someone to take it. When he screws up coach him, see if he learns from his mistakes and explain to him that such mistakes are the reason he's not starting. Let's see how he responds to all of that.

I hope he does respond because quite frankly we need head hunters in order to compete in the AFC North. Pittsburgh and Baltimore will hit you in the mouth and when they do, it's nice to have a guy like Burfict to hit back.

In recent years they've worked out more often then not. Mauluga despite his issues has been a starter. PacMan has contributed, but injuries have held him back more than poor actions. Bernard Scott is another guy who had dropped due to the dreaded character issues, and he's turned out to be a solid citizen.

Someone mentioned Frostee Rucker and Tank Johnson on the radio today, again they were able to contribute and they didn't do anything stupid once they got here. On the whole I'll consider that a win.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

In recent years they've worked out more often then not. Mauluga despite his issues has been a starter. PacMan has contributed, but injuries have held him back more than poor actions. Bernard Scott is another guy who had dropped due to the dreaded character issues, and he's turned out to be a solid citizen.

Someone mentioned Frostee Rucker and Tank Johnson on the radio today, again they were able to contribute and they didn't do anything stupid once they got here. On the whole I'll consider that a win.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

In recent years they've worked out more often then not. Mauluga despite his issues has been a starter. PacMan has contributed, but injuries have held him back more than poor actions. Bernard Scott is another guy who had dropped due to the dreaded character issues, and he's turned out to be a solid citizen.

Someone mentioned Frostee Rucker and Tank Johnson on the radio today, again they were able to contribute and they didn't do anything stupid once they got here. On the whole I'll consider that a win.

Cedric Benson had some problems before coming to the Bengals.

[The DARK]

Heck, even Larry Johnson and T.O., the two most notorious clubhouse cancers in the NFL, mostly kept their mouths shut here and played decent football. Marvin has a way of keeping such a crazy group on their best behavior that he doesn't get enough credit for. When I heard that Marvin talked in person with Vontaze, I got a hunch that he knew what he was doing, and that we'll probably see this kid take the field at some point this season. Yet whenever players with issues like that have left Cincinnati, they've tended to fall off a cliff quickly (Ochocinco, Owens, Johnson). I'd say that Marvin is perhaps the best judge of character of anybody in the NFL today.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

What's your preference? A guy who has problems on the field or off? His problems have been on the field. I saw him play in a few west coast games on FSN and as I watched him I thought "he has Bengal written all over him". Odell Thurman's problem was alcoholism, I don't think that's Burfict's problem. He just undisciplined. He will tend to be out of position and get fines for late hits. Supposedly Marvin's been talking to him and hopefully he's spelled it out for him: that there's a spot for him at MLB and he can make a living if he works at it and stays clean. I'm OK with signing him as an UDFA and I think his chances of working out are less than 50:50 but we've had a hole at that position ever since Marvin's been here (since Takeo Spikes left). For a guy like this the choice is clear: you either make a living in football or you'll be on the streets. I'm surprised that doesn't motivate more players

That's a good question Sea Ray. Being a knucklehead off the field doesn't actually cost the team anything other than PR points. On the other hand, being a knucklehead on the field is easier to coach the guy out of you would think.

I agree with the post you made further down the line. The Bengals are now going to be good enough to cut a lot of good players who will likely be picked up by other teams. So now if Burflict performs well enough early on, the team will be as vested in him as they are in a draft pick, because they'll have likely given up a previous draft pick to keep him.

[wolfboy]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

I must admit that I root for these kinds of guys but if I'm being completely honest, it's for selfish reasons. I want my team to develop this diamond in the rough, not because I'm happy for Vontaze but because I want to think my team is better than your team at finding and developing talent.

Now, have any of these projects ever worked? I would say probably not although I would opine that the Bengals don't win the division in 2005 without Odell Thurmond and Chris Henry. Has PacMan worked out? Not really but I suppose it can be argued that he's a contributor.

As for Vontaze, I'm still not sure if he's going to work. I wish I'd read in that article how his frustration led him to studying extra video and going in for extra work. I think Mike Brown ought to fork out money for him to get a place at Lytle Tower and change his environment as well as keep him close to Paul Brown Stadium. In other words keep him on a short leash. Then work him into the lineup slowly and let him be a head hunter on special teams out of the box. Tell him that he will get more playing time when he earns it and remind him that his position (MLB) is wide open and asking for someone to take it. When he screws up coach him, see if he learns from his mistakes and explain to him that such mistakes are the reason he's not starting. Let's see how he responds to all of that.

I hope he does respond because quite frankly we need head hunters in order to compete in the AFC North. Pittsburgh and Baltimore will hit you in the mouth and when they do, it's nice to have a guy like Burfict to hit back.

Even worse for me is the Ahmad Brooks result: Bengals keep the guy on the roster for a few years, he barely touches the field, then goes and blossoms elsewhere. I'd take the 18 sacks, 6 FF, and 1 INT Ahmad Brooks has given the 49ers over the last three seasons.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by wolfboy

Even worse for me is the Ahmad Brooks result: Bengals keep the guy on the roster for a few years, he barely touches the field, then goes and blossoms elsewhere. I'd take the 18 sacks, 6 FF, and 1 INT Ahmad Brooks has given the 49ers over the last three seasons.

The NFL is full of guys who were highly drafted but never caught on with their original team. For every Ahmad Brooks who went elsewhere and succeeded there is a Reggie Nelson who was a bust but became a solid starter.

[wolfboy]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

The NFL is full of guys who were highly drafted but never caught on with their original team. For every Ahmad Brooks who went elsewhere and succeeded there is a Reggie Nelson who was a bust but became a solid starter.

Yes, but Ahmad Brooks was not highly drafted. He was taken in the supplemental draft as a result of character issues. The Bengals took the chance and the Niners reaped the benefit. I realize this is a common tale in the NFL, but I'd like to see the Bengals reap the benefit of the risk they're taking in a guy like Burfict.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by wolfboy

Yes, but Ahmad Brooks was not highly drafted. He was taken in the supplemental draft as a result of character issues. The Bengals took the chance and the Niners reaped the benefit. I realize this is a common tale in the NFL, but I'd like to see the Bengals reap the benefit of the risk they're taking in a guy like Burfict.

That's debatable. If memory serves he was a 3rd rd pick and that is kind of high in my opinion