Does Todd Helton belong in the Hall of Fame?

[VottoFan54]

We were having this discussion in chat, Does Todd Helton belong in the Hall of Fame? Will he get in?

He had 5 consecutive season with an OPS over 1.000. He also had 10 straight season with a .300+ average with 9 of those 10 being above .315. He doesn't have the counting stats to get in, (351 HR and 2,400 hits) but he ranks 51st all time in career batting average, 18th in on base percentage, 28th in slugging percentage, and 15th in OPS. His counting stats will hurt him in addition to playing in the steroid era in Coors Field.

[Tom Servo]

I think he and Lance Berkman are both in the Hall of Very Good, but I don't know about the Hall of Fame. If not for injuries, it may be a different story.

[membengal]

Add in Coors field effect discount, and he doesn't have it.

Fred McGriff can't sniff the hall, and Helton is easily behind him.

[reds1869]

He has had a stellar career, but I agree with Tom Servo's "Hall of Very Good" comment. I wouldn't be upset if Helton got in, but I wouldn't write his name on my ballot if I had one.

[RedlegJake]

I'd vote no. He falls in the Vada Pinson, Fred McGriff area of tantalizingly good players who have either too short a career, or certain questions, like the Coors effect, that will hold back votes.

[mth123]

If not for Coors, I'd vote yes based on his slash stats. Right now, there are just too many questions about how inflated they may have been by Coors. He's still going. If he puts up a couple more good years, I might still move to yes.

[dfs]

The qualification that can push a first baseman into the hall of fame is home runs.
Todd Helton has 351? That's a no-go.

Keith Hernandez...John Olerud....batting average and defense just don't do it if you are a first baseman.


Hits HR RBi Runs
A 279/344/463 2,732 379 1,652 1,272 23 years

B 321/420/548 2,392 352 1,333 1,346 16 years

Player A is a 1B/3B type who played for several world series/pennant winning/playoff type teams and is in the hall but considered a marginal Hall of Famer.

Player B is Helton.

Helton would not be the worst player in the hall, but I don't see national writers voting for him.


Player A is Tony Perez.

[Vottomatic]

Ignore the name.

16 seasons
Career .321 batting average
351 HR's

Yes. He should be in the HOF.

[membengal]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

Ignore the name.

16 seasons
Career .321 batting average
351 HR's

Yes. He should be in the HOF.

I don't know why you think those stats ring the bell - especially at that position.

Dave Parker isn't in the hall, with similar (and better) stats. Fred McGriff. The list goes on. Helton was really good. But he isn't HOF. Tack on that he was helped by some factor by playing half of his career games in Coors, and it really isn't close.

PS: I must have missed the arguments for Larry Walker to the HOF...same basic career:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...alkela01.shtml

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by membengal

I don't know why you think those stats ring the bell - especially at that position.

Dave Parker isn't in the hall, with similar (and better) stats. Fred McGriff. The list goes on. Helton was really good. But he isn't HOF. Tack on that he was helped by some factor by playing half of his career games in Coors, and it really isn't close.

PS: I must have missed the arguments for Larry Walker to the HOF...same basic career:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...alkela01.shtml

I don't have time to go look this stuff up, but off the top of my head, I don't remember Parker having a career batting average in the .320 range.

It's kind of like the argument for Bonds. He could flat out hit. Sure his home runs might have been inflated a bit, but he could flat out hit. Helton can flat out hit. Add in the power numbers and it makes him worthy.

All the guys you people are comparing him to may have had similar power numbers, but lacked the outstanding career batting average.

[membengal]

Larry Walker's career average was .313. I will await you starting that thread.

Dave Parker's career average was a just fine .290 and he had over 2700 hits, and he's not in the Hall. And he didn't play half his career in Coors. If he had, I suspect he is over 3000 hits.

[membengal]

Fred McGriff, NOT in the hall, 493 career homers, 2500 hits. A 1b.

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by membengal

Larry Walker's career average was .313. I will await you starting that thread.

Dave Parker's career average was a just fine .290 and he had over 2700 hits, and he's not in the Hall. And he didn't play half his career in Coors. If he had, I suspect he is over 3000 hits.

I'd have to see all of Walker's numbers. I'm surprised he's not in the HOF. He scared the heck out of me when he came to the plate back then. Dude could flat out hit.

I'm surprised Parker isn't in the HOF either. I can only surmise his drug use back in his Pirates days still do him in with the voters.

McGriff the Crime Dog should be in the HOF, too.

Parker and McGriff should be there. Walker, depending on all of his numbers, is interesting. He was one of the premier hitters of his era, IMHO.

[dfs]

Originally Posted by membengal

Tack on that he was helped by some factor by playing half of his career games in Coors, and it really isn't close.

Not just park, but era correction will hurt him.

Once you put that era correction in there Keith Hernandez is pretty good comparison. The game changed post 1987.

[BCubb2003]

It's not the Hall of Numbers.

Era correction might actually be a halfway-decent way to deal with the sense of dominance that Hall of Famers must have.