Mt Healthy high school withholding a diploma because a family cheered at graduation

[Roy Tucker]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

That's interesting Roy. I didn't realize Mason's size had reached such proportions.

Someone better update Wiki:




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Hills_High_School

Weelllll, it was the largest a year or 2 ago. It's slipped to #4 now.

http://high-schools.com/report/oh/pu...k-in-ohio.html

[marcshoe]

A high school administrator acting like a despot? I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you!

(if any principals I would like to interview with are reading this, I'm not talking about you. You are the very picture of fairness.)

[Roy Tucker]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

So you are ok with punishing someone for the problems that were caused by others? And you are ok with not hiring someone because of something that their family members did, but that they weren't a part of?

I wouldn't want to work for you. Talk about no job security. Bob over in accounting messes up and I lose my job in IT over it? No thanks.

I'm with oneupper on this. It's called decency and respect and respecting other people and knowing how not to act like a total clown and drown out some other kids name who has just the same right you do to heard and recognized. And won't be because your friends and family don't know how to act in a public place.

And its not that there are random gangs of unknown people spontaneously cheering for every 12th kid. It is the student's family and friends. And the student and the family are well-advised that *they* are responsible for their behavior. And if their behavior is out of bounds, there are consequences. So Mom, Dad, and kid, talk to whoever is going to be there for you and make sure they know what it OK because *you* will be held accountable. This isn't a difficult concept.

[oneupper]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

So you are ok with punishing someone for the problems that were caused by others? And you are ok with not hiring someone because of something that their family members did, but that they weren't a part of?

It happens, doug. Student got and signed the same letter as all the others, but either didn't read it, or didn't tell his family about it or whatever excuse. Afterwards doesn't own up to it and does his CS (like the other offenders), but goes crying to mommy and the press.
Tells me a lot about this kid's character or lack thereof.

Oh and people take falls for what others do ALL the time. It's unfair when the responsibility/consequences aren't that clear from the beginning.
Not the case this time.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by oneupper

It happens, doug. Student got and signed the same letter as all the others, but either didn't read it, or didn't tell his family about it or whatever excuse. Afterwards doesn't own up to it and does his CS (like the other offenders), but goes crying to mommy and the press.
Tells me a lot about this kid's character or lack thereof.

Oh and people take falls for what others do ALL the time. It's unfair when the responsibility/consequences aren't that clear from the beginning.
Not the case this time.

So it is ok to expect someone else to control the actions of others and when they can't, punish them for it?

It is unfair either way. You can't expect an 18 year old to be able to control the actions of people hundreds of feet away from him.

Yes, it sucks that some people could potentially ruin it for others. But by punishing the wrong party doesn't do anyone any good.

There isn't an easy solution here, but punishing the student for the actions of his family/friends surely isn't the right solution.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Roy Tucker

I'm with oneupper on this. It's called decency and respect and respecting other people and knowing how not to act like a total clown and drown out some other kids name who has just the same right you do to heard and recognized. And won't be because your friends and family don't know how to act in a public place.

Notice how you didn't say how the kid being punished did anything?

And its not that there are random gangs of unknown people spontaneously cheering for every 12th kid. It is the student's family and friends. And the student and the family are well-advised that *they* are responsible for their behavior. And if their behavior is out of bounds, there are consequences. So Mom, Dad, and kid, talk to whoever is going to be there for you and make sure they know what it OK because *you* will be held accountable. This isn't a difficult concept.

Yes, it is a difficult concept because you are punishing an 18 year old for being unable to control what people hundreds of feet away from him are doing.

[Larry Schuler]

It's about RESPECT and DECENCY and LIBERTY and LIFE EVERLASTING, Doug!!! Are you against those things? If not, then rally with us for WHAT IS GOOD and take meaningless diplomas away from kids and theoretical job opportunities from fictional applicants!!!

[hebroncougar]

Originally Posted by oneupper

Some people are incapable of respecting the rights of others, even when its put in writing and/or in the law. There has to be sanctions because these people don't get what "the right thing" is.
Good for this principal to stand on his principles.

This Monday my daughter graduated from HS in a ceremony held at MARLINS STADIUM. One thousand kids in the graduating class and Joe Biden in attendance.
And YEP, there were a few "excessive cheerers" who may (depending on the seating) have spoiled the next parent's chance to hear their kid's name called, because they weren't stopping that line for anyone.

Oh, and if I'm researching this kid for a job and this article comes up. Guess what?
He's not getting hired.

That's ridiculous. Tell me exactly what THE KID did. I've taught and coached high school kids for over 20 years. There is no way you can hold a 17 or 18 year old kid responsible for what someone in an audience does or says. It wouldn't stand up anywhere else except for some school administrator on a power trip. So you're not going to hire the kid based on what?

[hebroncougar]

Originally Posted by oneupper

It happens, doug. Student got and signed the same letter as all the others, but either didn't read it, or didn't tell his family about it or whatever excuse. Afterwards doesn't own up to it and does his CS (like the other offenders), but goes crying to mommy and the press.
Tells me a lot about this kid's character or lack thereof.

Oh and people take falls for what others do ALL the time. It's unfair when the responsibility/consequences aren't that clear from the beginning.
Not the case this time.

Or he told the party, and they chose to not obey the rules. So, you punish the kid? If we all judged "character" on how 17 or 18 year old kids parents act, we're in trouble. I really think your should rethink that.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by hebroncougar

Or he told the party, and they chose to not obey the rules. So, you punish the kid? If we all judged "character" on how 17 or 18 year old kids parents act, we're in trouble. I really think your should rethink that.

I think his bigger point is that the kid and his family ran crying to the press. Plenty of employers would be skittish about hiring someone who runs to the press about a perceived wrong. Maybe if he and his parents had quietly gone to the school, apologized for the disruption, the school would have done away with the community service and handed him his diploma. By going to the press, they probably made the school dig in its heels. And there are plenty of instances in life where people are held responsible for the actions of those they bring to the party.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Yachtzee

I think his bigger point is that the kid and his family ran crying to the press. Plenty of employers would be skittish about hiring someone who runs to the press about a perceived wrong. Maybe if he and his parents had quietly gone to the school, apologized for the disruption, the school would have done away with the community service and handed him his diploma. By going to the press, they probably made the school dig in its heels. And there are plenty of instances in life where people are held responsible for the actions of those they bring to the party.

Did he go to the press? Or did his parents? Or did his friends?

[marcshoe]

Too many people keep quiet about this kind of small-minded authoritarianism. If this type of nonsense isn't made public, it will continue. People need to see where the bullying problem starts.

Not that I have strong opinions about this or anything.


I've seen too many school administrators who think they have absolute power and do all they can to dominate the lives of their students and employees. It's time we realized that a public school must not be the private territory of a two-bit dictator. Perhaps when these administrators start trying to increase their territory by dictating the behaviors of adults, they will get taken down a notch.

Schools are not businesses and the students are not employees. The focus needs to be on the development of the student, not on establishing a top-down structure.

[paintmered]

It sounds like everyone needs to get over themselves in this situation.

[oneupper]

Originally Posted by hebroncougar

Or he told the party, and they chose to not obey the rules. So, you punish the kid? If we all judged "character" on how 17 or 18 year old kids parents act, we're in trouble. I really think your should rethink that.

The kid and his parents signed a piece of paper assuming responsibility for the behavior of his barrackers (supporters). His supporters didn't behave as expected. A sanction was imposed (hardly a punishment...geez some community hours he probably could get helping his football coach). The sanction had been previously advised in the letter.

The actions of his parents are not the issue, but the kid's actions and response leave much to be desired.
Every explanation I can think of does not reflect well on the kid.

Here are a few:

1. Didn't read what he signed. (Do I have to explain this?)
2. Read but didn't take action (Mom said she didn't know about it),

Traci Cornist says if she signed it, she never read it.

3. Read but didn't understand.
4. Read, understood but in the end failed to accept responsibility for what he signed, for whatever reason (we can speculate about that too)
5. Some combination of the above.

I'm not a terrible person and I understand that the kid didn't do anything heinous. But the way things unfolded does not, IMO, reflect well on him.

No, I would not hire him (well maybe if the alternatives were worse). The kids who owned up to their parents' exuberance and did some service, no problem.

[Larry Schuler]

"So, Mr. Reynolds, your resume looks great however I have to ask...did you ever not own up to a trivial punishment as a kid?"
"Excuse me?"
"Don't pusssyfoot, son! You heard me! Did you chop down a cherry tree and think momma and poppa'd never find out?! Or did you man up and do what our nation's forefather did so bravely before you?! I'm looking for a George Washington to fix our Internet network! Not a jellyfish!!! What are YOU, boy?!"
"...is this for real?"