Mt Healthy high school withholding a diploma because a family cheered at graduation

[oneupper]

Originally Posted by Larry Schuler

"So, Mr. Reynolds, your resume looks great however I have to ask...did you ever not own up to a trivial punishment as a kid?"
"Excuse me?"
"Don't pusssyfoot, son! You heard me! Did you chop down a cherry tree and think momma and poppa'd never find out?! Or did you man up and do what our nation's forefather did so bravely before you?! I'm looking for a George Washington to fix our Internet network! Not a jellyfish!!! What are YOU, boy?!"
"...is this for real?"

You must be a troublemaker, Mr. Schuler.
Do you know what we do to troublemakers around here?

[hebroncougar]

Originally Posted by oneupper

The kid and his parents signed a piece of paper assuming responsibility for the behavior of his barrackers (supporters). His supporters didn't behave as expected. A sanction was imposed (hardly a punishment...geez some community hours he probably could get helping his football coach). The sanction had been previously advised in the letter.

The actions of his parents are not the issue, but the kid's actions and response leave much to be desired.
Every explanation I can think of does not reflect well on the kid.

Here are a few:

1. Didn't read what he signed. (Do I have to explain this?)
2. Read but didn't take action (Mom said she didn't know about it),

3. Read but didn't understand.
4. Read, understood but in the end failed to accept responsibility for what he signed, for whatever reason (we can speculate about that too)
5. Some combination of the above.

I'm not a terrible person and I understand that the kid didn't do anything heinous. But the way things unfolded does not, IMO, reflect well on him.

No, I would not hire him (well maybe if the alternatives were worse). The kids who owned up to their parents' exuberance and did some service, no problem.

Here's hoping your aren't in HR then. Holding a 17 or 18 year old kid responsible for his parent actions, regardless of what piece of paper they signed is ludicrous. If the administration had any guts, they'd have the adults removed from the graduation ceremony, if it was such a disturbance. But since that would take, you know, guts, and them standing up to someone that they don't have any power over, they don't do that. They take the back door, and try to bully a kid around. Hell, I give the kid credit for making it public. I'd love for it to get taken to court and have the ass of an administrator try and explain it.

Here's where she loses:

At no time, Handler says, did the students themselves get out of hand.

"The kids were angelic," she said.

Read more: http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/local_n...#ixzz1xLoH4iO4


So, I'm punishing kids for being "angelic".

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by hebroncougar

Here's hoping your aren't in HR then. Holding a 17 or 18 year old kid responsible for his parent actions, regardless of what piece of paper they signed is ludicrous. If the administration had any guts, they'd have the adults removed from the graduation ceremony, if it was such a disturbance. But since that would take, you know, guts, and them standing up to someone that they don't have any power over, they don't do that. They take the back door, and try to bully a kid around. Hell, I give the kid credit for making it public. I'd love for it to get taken to court and have the ass of an administrator try and explain it.

Here's where she loses:

At no time, Handler says, did the students themselves get out of hand.

"The kids were angelic," she said.

Read more: http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/local_n...#ixzz1xLoH4iO4


So, I'm punishing kids for being "angelic".

A lawsuit would probably get thrown out without a second thought. Schools are given quite a bit of leeway when it comes to making rules for school functions, and students don't have a constitutional right to a piece of paper. He may be entitled to be graduated by meeting the school graduation requirements, but the physical diploma is merely a nice keepsake.

I get the feeling the school was in a no win situation. Throw out the parents and family and at best they go to the press about how they were wronged at their son's graduation. At worst, they refuse to leave, causing a bigger disruption and requiring them to be forceably removed. Have you ever dealt with parents of students? Most are pretty reasonable, but quite a few are parents in name only and blame every little problem facing their precious on the school. And if you appease these parents who fail to abide by the rules, you end up catching hell from the parents and students who did abide by the rules. There's no way you can please everyone.

[hebroncougar]

Originally Posted by Yachtzee

A lawsuit would probably get thrown out without a second thought. Schools are given quite a bit of leeway when it comes to making rules for school functions, and students don't have a constitutional right to a piece of paper. He may be entitled to be graduated by meeting the school graduation requirements, but the physical diploma is merely a nice keepsake.

I get the feeling the school was in a no win situation. Throw out the parents and family and at best they go to the press about how they were wronged at their son's graduation. At worst, they refuse to leave, causing a bigger disruption and requiring them to be forceably removed. Have you ever dealt with parents of students? Most are pretty reasonable, but quite a few are parents in name only and blame every little problem facing their precious on the school. And if you appease these parents who fail to abide by the rules, you end up catching hell from the parents and students who did abide by the rules. There's no way you can please everyone.

Yep, I've coached varsity sports for 20 years, and I've been on the School Base Decision Making Council at the school I teach at for 10 years. One of the first things you learn, is to not make stupid rules. And this is a stupid rule that forces you into a corner. Let me ask you this. Did the policy solve the perceived problem (the noise) at graduation? Or did it, in the end make things worse? It made it worse. The school looks like, at best, a bunch of morons. At worst, they look like bullies. They stuck their neck out on a policy that is ignorant. It really is no different than if I, as a varsity coach, told my players.........hey, if your parents argue with a referee or umpire, and cause a ruckus in the stands, you have to do community service to stay on the team, or keep your playing time. And you have to sign a piece of paper that says so. Is that enforceable? Is that going to stand up? No, it's not. It's flat out stupid. Again, the kid did nothing wrong. You going to punish teachers that clapped for the kid? You going to punish neighbors? You going to punish people that don't like the kid, but cheered for him because they saw the paper their kid had to sign? It's a flat out stupid policy. And to top it off..........the so called "excessive cheering" is on video. And it's not excessive. I think some policy makers have short man's disease or something similar.

[Razor Shines]

Originally Posted by oneupper

You must be a troublemaker, Mr. Schuler.
Do you know what we do to troublemakers around here?

I guess baseclogger can take down his "RIP The Baumer".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Roy Tucker]

So, now we're getting cops in graduation to pull families out for making noise?

I thought explaining the policy beforehand and getting acknowlegement for the the involved parties seemed like a pretty good way to appeal to people's good nature and say "hey, we want to make this civil, can we all agree to be adults?". But apparently this is fascist behavior.

So how exactly are you supposed to handle this kind of situation?

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Roy Tucker

So, now we're getting cops in graduation to pull families out for making noise?

I thought explaining the policy beforehand and getting acknowlegement for the the involved parties seemed like a pretty good way to appeal to people's good nature and say "hey, we want to make this civil, can we all agree to be adults?". But apparently this is fascist behavior.

So how exactly are you supposed to handle this kind of situation?

Give everyone in the crowd headphones.

[757690]

Originally Posted by Roy Tucker

So, now we're getting cops in graduation to pull families out for making noise?

I thought explaining the policy beforehand and getting acknowlegement for the the involved parties seemed like a pretty good way to appeal to people's good nature and say "hey, we want to make this civil, can we all agree to be adults?". But apparently this is fascist behavior.

So how exactly are you supposed to handle this kind of situation?

Let them cheer. It's a once in a lifetime experience, marking an eccomplishment that is every parents dream. If they cheer too long, wait. Who cares how long the ceremony lasts?

Considering how many students these days aren't graduating, I would think a school would encourage parents to expresss their excitement at their child graduating.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by 757690

Let them cheer. It's a once in a lifetime experience, marking an eccomplishment that is every parents dream. If they cheer too long, wait. Who cares how long the ceremony lasts?

Considering how many students these days aren't graduating, I would think a school would encourage parents to expresss their excitement at their child graduating.

The parents do get to cheer, at the end of the walk, with all the other parents.

I suspect you haven't been to too many graduation ceremonies, and certainly haven't been there with elderly relatives. I went to a large high school, a large university, and law school, and have family members who have done the same. I also taught for a while and went through graduation ceremonies for my students every semester for 2 years. While the worst I have to deal with is falling asleep, long graduation ceremonies are taxing on elderly grandparents and family members with health issues (such as diabetics), especially when the venue for the ceremony relies on bleachers or folding chairs for their seating. And if it's outside on a hot day, people get dehydrated. Now imagine you've got a 600 student class and you let everyone clap and cheer as much as they want. You're now dragging out a 2 hour ceremony to 3-4 hours, a real test of endurance. Do you think school want to have an entire paramedics department stationed at the ready to deal with people passing out? Is it fair to make grandparents and family members with potential health problems stay at home because they can't handle a measly 4 hour graduation?

The reason schools want to keep the ceremonies moving along is because they know: a) a lot of people just can't handle sitting through a ceremony that goes beyond 2 hours, and b) those that can usually want to get the ceremony over with so that they can move on to the real celebration, the graduation party.

[camisadelgolf]

Instead of disrupting the ceremony and making the event worse for most of the people who attended, maybe people should start having parties to celebrate events like this. You could call it a "graduation party" and invite friends and family. Yes, I'm a little bitter since I didn't hear my name called at graduation thanks to the air horns from the family of the student named before me. I'm all for cheering people on, but once it reaches a certain level, it's disrespectful. I just hope someone alerted the family that the principal would be withholding diplomas to punish those who over-celebrate.

[GAC]

I watched/listened to the video, and the cheering was loud, but it didn't appear excessive or that it was going on for a long time. Maybe I'm missing something.

Originally Posted by westofyou

Man talk about uptight, time limit, rules, waiver, punishment, community service

All generated from something that should cause joy, celebration... Instead we get autocratic rules and dogmatic paternalism

Fully agree.

We're going down to Nelsonville today for our daughter's graduation from Hocking College. I'm sure we'll get "entertained" with some antics from that minority that get a little more "exuberant" then the rest. I've seen it at two of my kid's HS graduations. It's no big deal IMO.

"In order for [the students whose families were disruptive] to graduate, to receive their diplomas, they are going to have to do some community service," Handler said...... "Parents did know all this information up front," she said. "They signed off saying I understand that this is what's going to happen."

The parent signed it, but was the son required? But even if he did, he didn't violate the agreement according to the Superintendent. Don't see how. from a legal perspective, they can hold the kid responsible for the bad behavior of those he can't control, even if it's family members.

[oneupper]

Originally Posted by GAC

I watched/listened to the video, and the cheering was loud, but it didn't appear excessive or that it was going on for a long time. Maybe I'm missing something.

From the video, I get that impression too. However, they did pause the ceremony (which I believe was the trigger) and you don't know where the cheerers were relative to the audio.
In my daughter's graduation (Marlins Park), a few families went loud for a good 30 seconds (about three names, they were going fast). At one point it seemed like a competition, whose family could "outcheer" the previous one. I doubt much was heard on the field where the mike was, but any parents in the same area were not going to hear their kid's name called.

We're going down to Nelsonville today for our daughter's graduation from Hocking College. I'm sure we'll get "entertained" with some antics from that minority that get a little more "exuberant" then the rest. I've seen it at two of my kid's HS graduations. It's no big deal IMO.

CONGRATULATIONS GAC Just one more to go now?
(Sorry, was that too much? )

As for the issue, it e was big enough a deal for some parents in the past for the school authorities to take issue and state a policy about. Someone complained and probably more than one person.

It's not only about the kid and the school authorities.

BTW, I hate that civility has to be enforced by a contract. But that's the way things are in the US nowadays.

I do remember the alternative, in Venezuela for example, don't bother complaining about your neighbor's loud party at 4 AM (despite that there are laws and ordinances prohibiting it). The cops won't come, they're probably at the party having a real good time. It's no big deal, I guess. You can always sleep some other day.

[oneupper]

OT perhaps.

From that same site that brought the Diploma/Cheering story:

I think we can all get behind this young lady.
There was probably too much cheering at that graduation. She'll probably do the service if needed.

From scrubbing floors to Ivy League: Homeless student to go to dream college

Read more: http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/nationa...#ixzz1xOjbJ4P1

[KittyDuran]

Originally Posted by oneupper

OT perhaps.

From that same site that brought the Diploma/Cheering story:

I think we can all get behind this young lady.
There was probably too much cheering at that graduation. She'll probably do the service if needed.

I'm here at a Chili's having to put on my shades cause I'm tearing up... Thanks, oneupper...

[MWM]

I'm with Roy and oneupper on this. There needs to be action taken against those people who never think about how their actions effect other people, who say we're going to do whatever we want regardless of whether it infringes on others. It's all about us. I'm guessing their tune would be a lot different if their kid's name wouldn't have been heard. I doubt they would have just said "it's ok, their baby was graduating so they had a right to celebrate. We didn't need to hear Anthony's name."

Yachtzee's point about length of graduation and who could and couldn't attend is very appropriate. If people think nothing should happen here, is it ok then for everyone to do the same? Or should those who don't hear the names of their family member just accept that as ok? Are you ok with not hearing your child's name at graduation.