Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

[Blitz Dorsey]

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

Does Cingrani remind anyone of Matt Maloney? I'm just curious.

Jeez, I sure hope not. Maloney did have good K numbers in the minors, but never as good as Cingrani's. Also, Cingrani's ERA and WHIP are much better. It's been a small sample size, but I still think Cingrani will be far better. Also, Cingrani's velocity is better than Maloney's. Other than being 6-4 lefties, I don't think they're much alike.

[camisadelgolf]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

Same old same old. The guy who has "potential" and the guy whose stats say he's the guy.

I'm with Cingrani until his stats say otherwise. Saw this with Cueto and Bailey in the minors for years. Everyone sucked up the hype on Bailey, and Cueto simply did better.

When it comes to stats minor league stats, Cingrani looks like a future Hall of Famer compared to Cueto.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

Same old same old. The guy who has "potential" and the guy whose stats say he's the guy.

I'm with Cingrani until his stats say otherwise. Saw this with Cueto and Bailey in the minors for years. Everyone sucked up the hype on Bailey, and Cueto simply did better.

And if you paid attention to what people were saying, everyone was saying 'Cueto is better now, Bailey has more potential".

[OGB]

I haven't seen him pitch, and I can't say I'm aware of how often he goes away from his fastball, but what does a 6'4" lefty who throws in the low to mid 90's, with his numbers, have to do to be considered a top prospect?

Seriously, does it come down to him getting guys out with more than just his fastball, or is there more to it than that? I can't imagine there are many pitchers in the entirety of the minor leagues putting up better numbers than him right now.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by OGB

I haven't seen him pitch, and I can't say I'm aware of how often he goes away from his fastball, but what does a 6'4" lefty who throws in the low to mid 90's, with his numbers, have to do to be considered a top prospect?

Have more people convinced he can actually start in the major leagues. If he is a reliever, he is likely a set up guy at best. There is some value there, but that value is akin to that of a #4/5 pitcher.

Seriously, does it come down to him getting guys out with more than just his fastball, or is there more to it than that? I can't imagine there are many pitchers in the entirety of the minor leagues putting up better numbers than him right now.

A lot of guys put up dominant numbers in the minors and can't replicate them in the majors. It takes a different skillset to make that transition at times. But in Cingrani's case, yes, it comes down to him being able to get more guys out with his secondary pitches. Major Leaguers will be all over him if he is throwing 80% fastballs with moderate at best (at least as it sits right now) secondary pitches.

[Blitz Dorsey]

You can't teach a 95-MPH fastball. You CAN teach secondary pitches. Sounds like Cingrani is coming along quite well in terms of his secondary pitches.

Also, he has excellent command. We're not talking about someone who just throws a hard fastball but doesn't know where it's going. His K/BB numbers have been off-the-charts good from the moment he entered pro ball last summer. The big question was how he was going to adjust to Double-A when the time came. Well, so far, so good. (Albeit a very small sample size.)

Also, we're talking about a guy that was taken in the third-round last year. You'd think we were talking about a top-10 overall pick or something. Steal of the draft.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey

You can't teach a 95-MPH fastball. You CAN teach secondary pitches. Sounds like Cingrani is coming along quite well in terms of his secondary pitches.

Also, he has excellent command. We're not talking about someone who just throws a hard fastball but doesn't know where it's going. His K/BB numbers have been off-the-charts good from the moment he entered pro ball last summer. The big question was how he was going to adjust to Double-A when the time came. Well, so far, so good. (Albeit a very small sample size.)

Also, we're talking about a guy that was taken in the third-round last year. You'd think we were talking about a top-10 overall pick or something. Steal of the draft.

You can't always teach secondary pitches. It is why guys with 99 MPH fastballs and clean mechanics wind up as relievers.

Cingrani only winds up the steal of the draft if he can turn into a really good starting pitcher at the MLB level. That is far from a certainty.

[bellhead]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

You can't always teach secondary pitches. It is why guys with 99 MPH fastballs and clean mechanics wind up as relievers.

Cingrani only winds up the steal of the draft if he can turn into a really good starting pitcher at the MLB level. That is far from a certainty.

Any see him spending time next spring training with a guy named Soto???

[MikeS21]

So, Cingrani has a 92-94 mph fastball, a decent change (BA calls it a "solid change"), and a developing slider (that he appears to be making progress with)? And he's a lefthander to boot.

Sounds like someone to keep an eye on.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by MikeS21

So, Cingrani has a 92-94 mph fastball, a decent change (BA calls it a "solid change"), and a developing slider (that he appears to be making progress with)? And he's a lefthander to boot.

Sounds like someone to keep an eye on.

More like 89-92 and can touch higher than that.

[OesterPoster]

Originally Posted by MikeS21

So, Cingrani has a 92-94 mph fastball, a decent change (BA calls it a "solid change"), and a developing slider (that he appears to be making progress with)? And he's a lefthander to boot.

Sounds like someone to keep an eye on.

I think you basically described Cory Luebke, circa 2010. 6'4", lefty, college guy, threw low to mid 90s with his heater, but worked hard to develop his slider and change.

If Cingrani turns into Luebke in another year or two, I'll take it (minus the Tommy John).

[UCBrownsfan]

Obviously he needs to continue, but it seems odd to me that guys like Massett are said to have stuff and never have a high K rate in the minors while Cingrani with a very good K rate, and even better K/BB is said not to have stuff. Even if he's just a reliever, he seems to have potential to be our best reliever not named Chapman.

Just looking at guys last 2 minor league seasons with decent IP.
Cingrani 11/12
120.2 IP, 165 K, 23 BB
Homer Bailey
200.2 IP, 178 K, 73 BB
Nick Masset 05/06 Minor League numbers
272.2 IP, 210K, 109 BB, approx 280 BAA
Ondrusek 08/09
153 IP, 106K, 55 BB,
Arrendondo 06/07
213.2 IP, 226K, 82 BB
Hoover
260 IP, 269K, 90 BB
Simon
204.2 IP, 139K, 68 BB

[dougdirt]

Homer Bailey is only 3 years older than Cingrani is right now. Homer Bailey struck out 100 Major Leaguers in 109 innings three years ago. What would he have done in A+/AA?

[bellhead]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Homer Bailey is only 3 years older than Cingrani is right now. Homer Bailey struck out 100 Major Leaguers in 109 innings three years ago. What would he have done in A+/AA?

Ouch, throw at iceberg of water at him

[powersackers]

MiLB article today on his transition to SP and his self grade of his repertoire.

http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp...&tcid=tw_share