Someone in the media needs to hold Walt accountable

[Todd Gack]

Originally Posted by Who Dey Time

Latos has been far from outstanding but also hasn't been nearly as bad as some here claim.

Let it be known that Who Dey thinks a 5.20 ERA and Latos having given up the most HR's he's given up in his career. . .and it's only June as a season that 'hasn't been nearly as bad as some here claim.'

[brm7675]

Originally Posted by joshua

30 years of watching baseball and seeing that Mesoraco hasn't done anything impressive outside of 2010. Grandal's defense is nearly as good, he's a switch hitter and he's developing at a fast pace than Mesoraco has.

So how many actual games of Grandals have you watched?

[brm7675]

Originally Posted by Todd Gack

Let it be known that Who Dey thinks a 5.20 ERA and Latos having given up the most HR's he's given up in his career. . .and it's only June as a season that 'hasn't been nearly as bad as some here claim.'

How many 24 year olds are pitching in the majors right now and how does Latos compare to them...

[OGB]

Originally Posted by brm7675

So how many actual games of Grandals have you watched?

I like Grandal, too, but I was also wondering whether OP had an explanation for why he has reverted to throwing out less than 25% of base runners this year and guys are running on him left and right.

[Who Dey Time]

Originally Posted by Todd Gack

Let it be known that Who Dey thinks a 5.20 ERA and Latos having given up the most HR's he's given up in his career. . .and it's only June as a season that 'hasn't been nearly as bad as some here claim.'

If you take away his two disaster starts (at STL and last night) Latos has a 3.98 ERA over the other 12 starts. Not a world beater but certainly not a disaster that some here want to portray.

Any pitcher will have terrible starts. But, being 24, I'm willing to allow Latos to have these rough patches since the upside to him is huge....certainly bigger than any player we traded him for.

[MrRedLegger]

Latos won his last 5 decisions and last night we lost a game that anyone here could have hit 2-4 in. In other words, the bats were flying. Last night was a shootout, and these things happen. How often does making a rotation change serve as a successful "quick fix" in today's game? Give it time.

It was only a few months ago when everyone wanted Bailey's and Leake's heads. I pray for their safety if they end up losing another game.

The unruly Sun Deck mob can speak in, say, 2 years, whether or not he's still a Red at that point. (At least he'll be 26) He's not a free agent until 2016.

Let the kid grow up and I challenge most of you to take a break and enjoy first place.

[Larkin88]

Skipped the fifth and sixth page of this thread because the arguments were starting to go in circles, so sorry if someone commented something to this effect.

But to the point that the Reds exclusively looked at Latos? Yeah, that couldn't be further from the truth. I don't know what John Fay tweets you took out of context, but the Reds were involved on kicking the tires with the Rays for Shields, Braves for Jurrjens, AND the A's for Gonzalez to name a few.

Stop pulling things out of thin air just because you have an axe to grind. Makes you look like a petulant child. The entire premise of this thread is based on a fallacy. Options were explored and a group of people with access to a wealth of information you do not have made a cost-benefit choice based on what they knew at hand.

He's thirteen games in and locked up long term. Gonzalez isn't as good as he's been this year so far. Latos isn't as bad as he's been. Verdict is still out. Relax.

[Larkin88]

Originally Posted by joshua

I wish more than anything we still had Grandal on the team. Having a switch hitter would be awesome and exactly what this team needs. ****.

Billy Hamilton called. Wanted to let you know he's on his way in a year or two and that his position isn't going to be blocked.

Hang in there, man! I'm right there with you.

[Girevik]

First, let me start by admiting I haven't read all 7 pages of the thread. The views I'm stating here have probably been voiced by others.

I'll admit I'm hugely dissapointed in Lato's performance this year. If this is all we get out of him, the trade will be a huge bust not matter what the prospects end up doing. However, at the time of the trade I was thrilled. Based on the information out there, and Lato's past performance, I thought the Reds got a top or the rotation guy and he was going to be a huge part of the team.

I also think it's way too early for all the angst. Even if Latos keeps pitching like this all year, he's not a guy that was obtained for one year. I hope like crazy he gets it together sooner than later, but even one bad year from him wouldn't be a killer.

So, long post short: chillax.

[brm7675]

I think the question should be asked...How much time should be permitted too fully evaluate a trade like this. Personally I think you need to allow at least 2 full seasons. By then Latos will be 26, had over 4 full seaons in majors and 2 pitching for the Reds. At the end of the 2013 season I think we can then have some better insight on what Latos has done and also see what the players we gave up have done, but to state after less then 2.5 months the trade was a bust isn't fair to any of the players involved.

Also I have no issue with "questioning" some of the moves Walt has made during his tenure as Reds GM, but this isn't one at this point.

[dubc47834]

It's good to see that their are good posters on here and don't over react on 1 good/bad start. I'm not saying everyone on here who thinks the Latos deal was bad is a bad poster. Just that their isn't a need for the bickering that has gone on for the last 7 pages. Come on fellas, we are all Reds fans (I HOPE).

[Larkin88]

Originally Posted by 5TimeWSChamps

The trade was also done 6 days after the Reds traded for Latos, so they could have at least inquired as to see what it would have taken.

These things don't happen in a vacuum. You are totally ignoring the TYPE of prospects given up other than some arbitrary ranking system Baseball America cooks up. Three out of the four prospects the Nationals sent to Oakland were close-to-MLB-ready starting pitchers. There's a chance the A's weren't interested in a reliever, a declining starter (with the walking tendencies Gonzlez himself has), a catcher and a first basemen.

It takes two to tango. Your insinuations that you know more than everyone on this board, let alone Walt and the front office aren't so much insulting as they are comical.

[brm7675]

Originally Posted by Larkin88

These things don't happen in a vacuum. You are totally ignoring the TYPE of prospects given up other than some arbitrary ranking system Baseball America cooks up. Three out of the four prospects the Nationals sent to Oakland were close-to-MLB-ready starting pitchers. There's a chance the A's weren't interested in a reliever, a declining starter (with the walking tendencies Gonzlez himself has), a catcher and a first basemen.

It takes two to tango. Your insinuations that you know more than everyone on this board, let alone Walt and the front office aren't so much insulting as they are comical.

I think you raise a good point, there is a good chance Oakland and or TB didn't want what we were offereing to trade their pitchers. I have not heard either Billy Beane or the TB GM say hey we would have taken what SD got for latos for our guys in a heartbeat....

[Larkin88]

Originally Posted by brm7675

I think you raise a good point, there is a good chance Oakland and or TB didn't want what we were offereing to trade their pitchers. I have not heard either Billy Beane or the TB GM say hey we would have taken what SD got for latos for our guys in a heartbeat....

"I told everyone I spoke to, we'd leverage one team against the other," Beane said. "We were giving up a pitcher, and the ability to acquire three very good major league prospects who were pitchers swung it for us."

Source.

So 5TimeWSChamps, other than Volquez, curious what other two pitchers would you have traded away for Gonzalez?

[jimbo]

What an ridiculous thread. It'll be a funny one to revisit in the near future.