Thursday June 21, 2012 Minor League Updates

[camisadelgolf]

Wow. I doubt someone here said Hamilton sucks. As for the comparison to Josh Hamilton and athleticism, I don't remember reading that argument (let's be honest--I skip or skim most posts), but if anyone said Billy isn't as athletic as Josh, I'm sure he meant it in an "overall baseball package" kind of way. Josh has a better arm, significantly more power, and a better hit tool. Billy's only edge is speed, and although he's an 80, that in itself can only get you so far. I have a feeling that what Doug is trying to do is to keep the expectations for Billy Hamilton more reasonable. I'm excited about Billy, too, but he seems to have a ways to go before he's an effective Major League hitter, and there are people around here (and in the organization, I'm sure) talking about promoting him to MLB. I don't think it's crazy to say that if you send Hamilton up now, he'll probably struggle a great deal. I think that's basically what Doug's trying to say. But no one likes having dreams smashed, so I think that's why people are getting defensive. That, and Doug isn't exactly tactful about his message. Just my two cents.

[membengal]

Doug gets married to narratives and loses perspective.

[camisadelgolf]

Originally Posted by membengal

Doug gets married to narratives and loses perspective.

If there's one thing Doug has shown, it's that you can't change his mind without data, quotes from scouts, etc. That doesn't necessarily mean Doug doesn't have more to learn about backing down, too, but I'd just let it go. This is the best forum on the whole site, but the petty arguments drag it down imho. Arguments are good, but the same ones over and over get pretty tiring.

[membengal]

Heck, you can't even change his mind with data. The Stubbs stuff for years on this board.

In any event, despite Doug's campaign to ruin enjoyment of how fun Hamilton is, I will continue to find his season historically fun.

[camisadelgolf]

Originally Posted by membengal

Heck, you can't even change his mind with data. The Stubbs stuff for years on this board.

In any event, despite Doug's campaign to ruin enjoyment of how fun Hamilton is, I will continue to find his season historically fun.

Good or bad, I don't think Stubbs has done anything that went against anything Doug said could happen. I could be wrong though.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

I really don't want to get into this again, but if I were to show you tweets and quotes from respected baseball talent evaluators that commented on his extreme athelticism, would you then admit you were wrong?

No. You continue to not understand what I am saying. Billy Hamilton is arguably the most athletic player the Reds have the rights to, Majors or Minors. I still don't consider him a super athlete on par with a guy like Josh Hamilton who can run very fast, throw very hard, jump very high and has big time strength. Those are the things I consider when I think of a super athlete, which is what was originally brought up.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey

I used to say the same thing about Drew Stubbs' minor-league numbers, but you and others would argue with me.

Hamilton will be fine. If Stubbs can carve out a Big League career based totally on speed (OK and some occasional power) than the even-faster Hamilton will too. The question is how good of a MLB player he will be. Not sure about that, but I have no doubt he'll be in The Show for years. And at least he knows he's a "slap hitter" ... we don't have to worry about him thinking he's some power hitter.

My argument with Stubbs was that his stuff in the minors WOULDN'T transfer forward, but he had untapped power that would help him make that transition to the Majors. If Stubbs was hitting just 5 HR's a season, like he was in the minors, he wouldn't have had any kind of success. But Stubbs projected to be a 15-20 HR guy and because of that it is why I projected him to move forward with his general numbers from the minors.

Stubbs and Hamilton aren't even close to the same kind of player, so saying because Stubbs then Hamilton doesn't work.

Now if you wanted to go down the road of saying because Brett Gargner, then Hamilton, we can have that discussion because the two are a lot more comparable.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

If there's one thing Doug has shown, it's that you can't change his mind without data, quotes from scouts, etc. That doesn't necessarily mean Doug doesn't have more to learn about backing down, too, but I'd just let it go. This is the best forum on the whole site, but the petty arguments drag it down imho. Arguments are good, but the same ones over and over get pretty tiring.

I will be the first to admit that I am incredibly stubborn. But I chalk it up to the fact that when I make up my mind, it is generally based on a whole lot of facts/research/studying/observation. Now whether you want to argue that I am just crazy.... well, I am willing to listen to such an argument.

[corkedbat]

Blazin Billy leads off the game and promptly pilfers #83. Whoda thunk it?

[corkedbat]

Billy moves to 3rd on a K by Lohman that gets through the catcher and then scores on GO by Dominic D'Anna. 1-0 Blaze middle of the 1st

[dougdirt]

Wrong thread corked. Today is Friday.

[corkedbat]

woops! thanks DD!